From zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch  Fri Sep 11 04:05:24 2009
From: zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BDeljko_Filipin?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:05:24 +0200
Subject: [Wtr-development] Recommended version of Watir
In-Reply-To: <ade75c5b0909102121g69c6051bl37d6e211a6212d36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909102121g69c6051bl37d6e211a6212d36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f81b1250909110105v607b334bx925d4d73e6455cdc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com>
wrote:
> I think this should be changed to "We recommend using Ruby 1.8.6-26".

Done.

http://watir.com/installation/

?eljko
--
http://watirpodcast.com/
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From marekj.com at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:26:19 2009
From: marekj.com at gmail.com (marekj)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:26:19 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>

Cool,

I am good for testing on WinXP and IE6 as this is my 'official' test env config.
And on WinXP and IE8 as a secondary test env.

I my main env I use 1.6.2 (with some monkey patches) and I have not
been using the latest watir local gem
So I might be a good 'upgrade' candiate


marekj

Watirloo: Semantic Page Objects in UseCases
http://github.com/marekj/watirloo/




On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> ? It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release of
> Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a new
> release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of you
> may have been already working with these changes; the update, while adding
> additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the current
> version - 1.6.2.
>
> ?I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the past
> several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking at
> next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending out
> a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted. Todos
> for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping me.
> Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
>
> Thanks
> -Charley
> Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
> QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>

From ynot408 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 05:00:56 2009
From: ynot408 at gmail.com (! Tony !)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:30:56 +0530
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
	<2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Charley,

Count me in tooo ..
Winxp on IE6 and IE8

Thanks,
Tony

From zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch  Thu Sep 24 05:13:22 2009
From: zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BDeljko_Filipin?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:13:22 +0200
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f81b1250909240213l10816429r18750cb1edd15550@mail.gmail.com>

I will definitively try 1.7. I have Windows 2003 and XP (and probably Vista
and 7 somewhere) with IE 6, 7 and 8.

?eljko
--
http://watirpodcast.com/
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From bret at pettichord.com  Fri Sep 11 00:21:36 2009
From: bret at pettichord.com (Bret Pettichord)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:21:36 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] Recommended version of Watir
Message-ID: <ade75c5b0909102121g69c6051bl37d6e211a6212d36@mail.gmail.com>

I'm reading through some of the Jira tickets tonight. A couple complain
about the problem with click_no_wait and Ruby 1.8.6-27.
http://jira.openqa.org/browse/WTR-314

I just re-read our copy on the Watir.com site and it says "We recommend
using the latest version of Ruby 1.8.6 with Watir 1.6."

I think this should be changed to "We recommend using Ruby 1.8.6-26".

Alister, can you update this?

Bret

-- 
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com

Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
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From zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch  Fri Sep 11 04:05:24 2009
From: zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BDeljko_Filipin?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:05:24 +0200
Subject: [Wtr-development] Recommended version of Watir
In-Reply-To: <ade75c5b0909102121g69c6051bl37d6e211a6212d36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909102121g69c6051bl37d6e211a6212d36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f81b1250909110105v607b334bx925d4d73e6455cdc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com>
wrote:
> I think this should be changed to "We recommend using Ruby 1.8.6-26".

Done.

http://watir.com/installation/

?eljko
--
http://watirpodcast.com/
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From charley.baker at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:00:14 2009
From: charley.baker at gmail.com (Charley Baker)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:00:14 -0600
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
Message-ID: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

  It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release of
Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a new
release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of you
may have been already working with these changes; the update, while adding
additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the current
version - 1.6.2.

 I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the past
several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking at
next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending out
a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted. Todos
for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping me.
Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.

Thanks
-Charley
Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
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From marekj.com at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:26:19 2009
From: marekj.com at gmail.com (marekj)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:26:19 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>

Cool,

I am good for testing on WinXP and IE6 as this is my 'official' test env config.
And on WinXP and IE8 as a secondary test env.

I my main env I use 1.6.2 (with some monkey patches) and I have not
been using the latest watir local gem
So I might be a good 'upgrade' candiate


marekj

Watirloo: Semantic Page Objects in UseCases
http://github.com/marekj/watirloo/




On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> ? It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release of
> Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a new
> release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of you
> may have been already working with these changes; the update, while adding
> additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the current
> version - 1.6.2.
>
> ?I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the past
> several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking at
> next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending out
> a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted. Todos
> for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping me.
> Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
>
> Thanks
> -Charley
> Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
> QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>


From charley.baker at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:45:56 2009
From: charley.baker at gmail.com (Charley Baker)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:45:56 -0600
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting, ie6 isn't great, but it's still the primary combination for CI
here - XP and IE6, things are bound to explode there if anywhere. I've
tested on my Mac, which is my primary machine - Windows running in a VM,
kills me for actually using my mac and some of my secondary windows/linux
boxes are suffering, hd, ram etc. Anyhow good to get some involvement.

-c

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, marekj <marekj.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cool,
>
> I am good for testing on WinXP and IE6 as this is my 'official' test env
> config.
> And on WinXP and IE8 as a secondary test env.
>
> I my main env I use 1.6.2 (with some monkey patches) and I have not
> been using the latest watir local gem
> So I might be a good 'upgrade' candiate
>
>
> marekj
>
> Watirloo: Semantic Page Objects in UseCases
> http://github.com/marekj/watirloo/
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >   It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release
> of
> > Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a new
> > release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of
> you
> > may have been already working with these changes; the update, while
> adding
> > additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the current
> > version - 1.6.2.
> >
> >  I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the
> past
> > several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking
> at
> > next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending
> out
> > a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted.
> Todos
> > for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping me.
> > Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Charley
> > Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
> > QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wtr-development mailing list
> > Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
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From daniel.vartanov at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 23:38:17 2009
From: daniel.vartanov at gmail.com (Daniel Vartanov)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:38:17 +0600
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ead5bbe10909232038j269c8654yb2c4d08bbd4b9274@mail.gmail.com>

Charley,

I can help with testing. I am on Gentoo (amd64).

Daniel.

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com>wrote:

> Interesting, ie6 isn't great, but it's still the primary combination for CI
> here - XP and IE6, things are bound to explode there if anywhere. I've
> tested on my Mac, which is my primary machine - Windows running in a VM,
> kills me for actually using my mac and some of my secondary windows/linux
> boxes are suffering, hd, ram etc. Anyhow good to get some involvement.
>
> -c
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, marekj <marekj.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cool,
>>
>> I am good for testing on WinXP and IE6 as this is my 'official' test env
>> config.
>> And on WinXP and IE8 as a secondary test env.
>>
>> I my main env I use 1.6.2 (with some monkey patches) and I have not
>> been using the latest watir local gem
>> So I might be a good 'upgrade' candiate
>>
>>
>> marekj
>>
>> Watirloo: Semantic Page Objects in UseCases
>> http://github.com/marekj/watirloo/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >   It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release
>> of
>> > Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a
>> new
>> > release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of
>> you
>> > may have been already working with these changes; the update, while
>> adding
>> > additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the
>> current
>> > version - 1.6.2.
>> >
>> >  I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the
>> past
>> > several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking
>> at
>> > next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending
>> out
>> > a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted.
>> Todos
>> > for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping
>> me.
>> > Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Charley
>> > Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
>> > QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wtr-development mailing list
>> > Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wtr-development mailing list
>> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From abaird at bairdsnet.net  Thu Sep 24 00:02:17 2009
From: abaird at bairdsnet.net (Alan Baird)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:02:17 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com>

Count me in.  I've got XP and IE7 at home and could probably get access to
some of my VM's at work.
Alan

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com>wrote:

> Interesting, ie6 isn't great, but it's still the primary combination for CI
> here - XP and IE6, things are bound to explode there if anywhere. I've
> tested on my Mac, which is my primary machine - Windows running in a VM,
> kills me for actually using my mac and some of my secondary windows/linux
> boxes are suffering, hd, ram etc. Anyhow good to get some involvement.
>
> -c
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, marekj <marekj.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cool,
>>
>> I am good for testing on WinXP and IE6 as this is my 'official' test env
>> config.
>> And on WinXP and IE8 as a secondary test env.
>>
>> I my main env I use 1.6.2 (with some monkey patches) and I have not
>> been using the latest watir local gem
>> So I might be a good 'upgrade' candiate
>>
>>
>> marekj
>>
>> Watirloo: Semantic Page Objects in UseCases
>> http://github.com/marekj/watirloo/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >   It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release
>> of
>> > Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a
>> new
>> > release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of
>> you
>> > may have been already working with these changes; the update, while
>> adding
>> > additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the
>> current
>> > version - 1.6.2.
>> >
>> >  I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the
>> past
>> > several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking
>> at
>> > next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending
>> out
>> > a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted.
>> Todos
>> > for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping
>> me.
>> > Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Charley
>> > Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
>> > QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wtr-development mailing list
>> > Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wtr-development mailing list
>> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From ynot408 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 05:00:56 2009
From: ynot408 at gmail.com (! Tony !)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:30:56 +0530
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com>
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com>
	<2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Charley,

Count me in tooo ..
Winxp on IE6 and IE8

Thanks,
Tony


From zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch  Thu Sep 24 05:13:22 2009
From: zeljko.filipin at wa-research.ch (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BDeljko_Filipin?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:13:22 +0200
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
In-Reply-To: <8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96821860909231500m6136429cga21772088b8d761a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ad6790aa0909231526w38484b69nb2f749b7a8963b38@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f96821860909231545y3535150em8b3f9cb1bdc56597@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2a379a300909232102j52da351xb555cf5c14aa1101@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8ac3ceb30909240200q46c6bbeeg26e2e0764ef6fa05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f81b1250909240213l10816429r18750cb1edd15550@mail.gmail.com>

I will definitively try 1.7. I have Windows 2003 and XP (and probably Vista
and 7 somewhere) with IE 6, 7 and 8.

?eljko
--
http://watirpodcast.com/
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From amit.esys at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 03:20:30 2009
From: amit.esys at gmail.com (Amit Kumar)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:50:30 +0530
Subject: [Wtr-development] New version of Watir (1.7.x) coming next week
Message-ID: <91249cb00909250020u1c4bfd39sa6a40d03ff6caf0f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
I also want to test 1.7.x
I want to test it on IE 6, 7, 8 & FF

- thanks
Amit rajoriya

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Charley Baker <charley.baker at
gmail.com <http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development>>
wrote:
>* Hi all,
*>*
*>*   It's been a long time since we released 1.6.2 as the official release of
*>* Watir. Bret and I talked this morning and agreed that it's time for a new
*>* release with quite a few changes in the current trunk on github. Some of you
*>* may have been already working with these changes; the update, while adding
*>* additional functionality, should be a drop in replacement for the current
*>* version - 1.6.2.
*>*
*>*  I'm taking the lead on releasing this version which I've done in the past
*>* several times. If you can or want to help out, let me know, I'm looking at
*>* next week for pushing out 1.7.0 and having people test, and then sending out
*>* a new release, likely 1.7.1 when the initial release has been vetted. Todos
*>* for this release are fairly minimal, but if you want to sign up, ping me.
*>* Testing on different platforms would help out quite a bit.
*>*
*>* Thanks
*>* -Charley
*>* Lead Developer, Watir, http://watir.com
*>* QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
*>*
*>* _______________________________________*
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From bret at pettichord.com  Wed Sep 30 15:43:57 2009
From: bret at pettichord.com (Bret Pettichord)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:43:57 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] Policy on Watir Additions
Message-ID: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>

I've just been chatting with Charley about adding some new features to Watir
1.7. These were proposed by Alan Baird.

I wanted to share the policy that I've been using recently.

Namely, I've been reluctant to add new methods/features to Watir unless whey
work with both IE and Firefox. The reason for this is that there are already
too many differences and making more only makes it harder for people to run
tests against both browsers.

Anyway, I would like to know whether others think this is a reasonable rule.

Bret

-- 
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com

Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
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From paul.rogers at shaw.ca  Wed Sep 30 16:12:36 2009
From: paul.rogers at shaw.ca (Paul Rogers)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:12:36 -0600
Subject: [Wtr-development] Policy on Watir Additions
In-Reply-To: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7eaafaa0909301312j762d5c78jbf529e043e3b0933@mail.gmail.com>

There may be some features that are really useful for one browser, but cant
easily be implemented in the other. Here it would seem that the feature
should be added, maybe using the contrib dir, so that it is available. But
on the whole I agree with you that making watir and almost-watir makes it
harder for end users, and leads to more questions on the list

Paul

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com>wrote:

> I've just been chatting with Charley about adding some new features to
> Watir 1.7. These were proposed by Alan Baird.
>
> I wanted to share the policy that I've been using recently.
>
> Namely, I've been reluctant to add new methods/features to Watir unless
> whey work with both IE and Firefox. The reason for this is that there are
> already too many differences and making more only makes it harder for people
> to run tests against both browsers.
>
> Anyway, I would like to know whether others think this is a reasonable
> rule.
>
> Bret
>
> --
> Bret Pettichord
> Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com
>
> Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog <http://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/blog>
> Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From jeff.fry at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 17:53:24 2009
From: jeff.fry at gmail.com (Jeff Fry)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Wtr-development] jQuery support / experience report with Windmill
Message-ID: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>

Re: not adding features that are browser specific to the core of watir: I
like the idea a lot. Getting to be *really really* browser agnostic is going
to be important for watir.

On a relatedish note: I've recently been using http://getwindmill.com for
browser-based test automation, and it has what for me has really turned into
a killer feature. Backing up a second, the shop I'm at now is VERY python
focused, and in order to get devs to look at, let alone write, test scripts
means having them written in python.  Based on this requirement, plus the
need to handle an AJAX-heavy site, I came across Windmill, which was started
by some Se devs who started their own project to support very AJAX-y apps.

I started evaluating it, but was frustrated with their API, which is *much*
less expressive than the watir API. Their/python's xpath implementation is
pretty zippy, but for most everything I was working on, I ended up needing
to fall back on xpath selectors, and I was NOT enjoying my xpath learning
curve.

Anyway, just as I was thinking I might not be able to live with their API,
they added support for using jQuery in selectors. I hadn't ever used jQuery
before, but it's super easy to learn, incredibly powerful, and is really
just harnessing the power (&syntax) of CSS. In many ways, it feels like the
natural progression of Bret's rail against vendorscripts...an API that's not
unique to one tool, but can be implemented by any tool, and is in use by a
rapidly growing group of web developers. More importantly, over one weekend,
Windmill went from a frustratingly primitive API to one that is more
powerful than (though not necessarily as elegant as) the Watir API.

Some examples would be handy right about now:

Select based on a regex of a custom attibute's value

   #like it or not, we use /many/ custom attributes. jQuery can select
by any of them.

   c.click(jquery=u'("a.prop-edit-button[fb__href*=\'%s\']")[0]' % property)

Using *:last* to get the final of several nodes

   c.type(jquery=u'("input.prop-table-edit-thead-primary[fb__pid=\'%s\']:last")[0]'
% property, text=value)

Of several nodes of a given class, select the *:visible* one

   self.type(text=topic_name, jquery=u'("input.adddatameta-input:visible")[0]')

Select one node, then go to a child of it

   #find the last form with class foo. within it, find a button that
matches regex bar.

   self.click(jquery=u'("form.add-data-form:last button[name=\'add\']")[0]')

   #find a div whose fb__pid matches foo. Within it go to a node of
any type with classes .bar and .baz.

   c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\']
.prop-edit-menu-title.popup-trigger")[0]' % property)

   #is the "Import list" link now visible?

   c.asserts.assertNode(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\']
.import-link:visible")[0]' % property)

   #within a div that matches foo, click on a node with class .bar

   c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link")[0]' % property)

Now, for the things like this that watir can do, watir typically does them
more elegantly. But there are other things (like selecting based on custom
attributes) that jQuery support makes very powerful. The whole jQuery
selector library is pretty straightforward to learn, and quite well
documented http://docs.jquery. <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
com/Selectors <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>

By the way, one of the things web devs like about jquery is that it's very
sandboxable. That allows Windmill to instantiate jquery themselves, and so
their selectors work exactly the same whether or not the site under test
uses jquery in the page, and don't materially change the AUT. (As a tester
I'll note that these are bold assertions, but that the data I've seen so far
has been quite encouraging.)

At this point, having used it for a while, I think jQuery support is a huge
deal. It certainly is on our site, which (for understandable reasons) often
has many similar nodes that are only distinguishable based on a custom
attribute, a distinguishing parent or sibling node, or etc.

The Windmill source is at github.com/windmill/windmill and jQuery support is
only in the v1.3 beta now. I'm not sure how relevant the implementation in
Windmill would be to the implementation in Watir...but I include the link in
case it's helpful, and in case someone is interested in taking a whack at
it.

I'm happy to chat more about this, on or off list.

Hope all's well with y'all,

-- 
Jeff Fry

http://testingjeff.wordpress.com
http://associationforsoftwaretesting.org
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From bret at pettichord.com  Wed Sep 30 21:08:46 2009
From: bret at pettichord.com (Bret Pettichord)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:08:46 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] Policy on Watir Additions
In-Reply-To: <e7eaafaa0909301312j762d5c78jbf529e043e3b0933@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eaafaa0909301312j762d5c78jbf529e043e3b0933@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ade75c5b0909301808j2a47ac3obeb92d84d6a8496c@mail.gmail.com>

So let me give a concrete example.

Hugh McGowan coded the often requested method "element" and "elements". I
was going to post a link to the code -- which is in his fork -- but github
seems to be down right now.

Anyhow, I declined to pull this code into trunk because even though it had
unit tests, it did not have an implementation for FireFox -- only IE.

I often talk to people who say they would really like to contribute to
Watir. Well, it seems like finishing features like this (i.e. making them
work on Firefox) would be a good thing.

As regards contrib -- my thinking is that this is no longer necessary.
Before we were on github, it was hard for people to distribute their own
extensions to watir. Now that we are on github, any one can fork and extend.
In other words, github IS contrib.

So by the way, I'd like to thank Charley for taking the lead on getting
Watir 1.7 released. My laptop has been away for repair. I just got it back
today, and have some catching up to do now.

Bret

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Paul Rogers <paul.rogers at shaw.ca> wrote:

> There may be some features that are really useful for one browser, but cant
> easily be implemented in the other. Here it would seem that the feature
> should be added, maybe using the contrib dir, so that it is available. But
> on the whole I agree with you that making watir and almost-watir makes it
> harder for end users, and leads to more questions on the list
>
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com> wrote:
>
>> I've just been chatting with Charley about adding some new features to
>> Watir 1.7. These were proposed by Alan Baird.
>>
>> I wanted to share the policy that I've been using recently.
>>
>> Namely, I've been reluctant to add new methods/features to Watir unless
>> whey work with both IE and Firefox. The reason for this is that there are
>> already too many differences and making more only makes it harder for people
>> to run tests against both browsers.
>>
>> Anyway, I would like to know whether others think this is a reasonable
>> rule.
>>
>> Bret
>>
>> --
>> Bret Pettichord
>> Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com
>>
>> Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog <http://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/blog>
>> Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wtr-development mailing list
>> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>



-- 
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com

Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
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From bret at pettichord.com  Wed Sep 30 21:22:15 2009
From: bret at pettichord.com (Bret Pettichord)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:22:15 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] jQuery support / experience report with
	Windmill
In-Reply-To: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ade75c5b0909301822q4a759d39m957f631276d335e7@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Thanks for sharing your impression of Windmill. It is one of the projects
that I like to keep watch of.

Bret

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fry <jeff.fry at gmail.com> wrote:

> Re: not adding features that are browser specific to the core of watir: I
> like the idea a lot. Getting to be *really really* browser agnostic is going
> to be important for watir.
>
> On a relatedish note: I've recently been using http://getwindmill.com for
> browser-based test automation, and it has what for me has really turned into
> a killer feature. Backing up a second, the shop I'm at now is VERY python
> focused, and in order to get devs to look at, let alone write, test scripts
> means having them written in python.  Based on this requirement, plus the
> need to handle an AJAX-heavy site, I came across Windmill, which was started
> by some Se devs who started their own project to support very AJAX-y apps.
>
> I started evaluating it, but was frustrated with their API, which is *much*
> less expressive than the watir API. Their/python's xpath implementation is
> pretty zippy, but for most everything I was working on, I ended up needing
> to fall back on xpath selectors, and I was NOT enjoying my xpath learning
> curve.
>
> Anyway, just as I was thinking I might not be able to live with their API,
> they added support for using jQuery in selectors. I hadn't ever used jQuery
> before, but it's super easy to learn, incredibly powerful, and is really
> just harnessing the power (&syntax) of CSS. In many ways, it feels like the
> natural progression of Bret's rail against vendorscripts...an API that's not
> unique to one tool, but can be implemented by any tool, and is in use by a
> rapidly growing group of web developers. More importantly, over one weekend,
> Windmill went from a frustratingly primitive API to one that is more
> powerful than (though not necessarily as elegant as) the Watir API.
>
> Some examples would be handy right about now:
>
> Select based on a regex of a custom attibute's value
>
>    #like it or not, we use /many/ custom attributes. jQuery can select by any of them.
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("a.prop-edit-button[fb__href*=\'%s\']")[0]' % property)
>
> Using *:last* to get the final of several nodes
>
>    c.type(jquery=u'("input.prop-table-edit-thead-primary[fb__pid=\'%s\']:last")[0]' % property, text=value)
>
> Of several nodes of a given class, select the *:visible* one
>
>    self.type(text=topic_name, jquery=u'("input.adddatameta-input:visible")[0]')
>
> Select one node, then go to a child of it
>
>    #find the last form with class foo. within it, find a button that matches regex bar.
>
>    self.click(jquery=u'("form.add-data-form:last button[name=\'add\']")[0]')
>
>    #find a div whose fb__pid matches foo. Within it go to a node of any type with classes .bar and .baz.
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .prop-edit-menu-title.popup-trigger")[0]' % property)
>
>    #is the "Import list" link now visible?
>
>    c.asserts.assertNode(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link:visible")[0]' % property)
>
>    #within a div that matches foo, click on a node with class .bar
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link")[0]' % property)
>
> Now, for the things like this that watir can do, watir typically does them
> more elegantly. But there are other things (like selecting based on custom
> attributes) that jQuery support makes very powerful. The whole jQuery
> selector library is pretty straightforward to learn, and quite well
> documented http://docs.jquery. <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
> com/Selectors <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
>
> By the way, one of the things web devs like about jquery is that it's very
> sandboxable. That allows Windmill to instantiate jquery themselves, and so
> their selectors work exactly the same whether or not the site under test
> uses jquery in the page, and don't materially change the AUT. (As a tester
> I'll note that these are bold assertions, but that the data I've seen so far
> has been quite encouraging.)
>
> At this point, having used it for a while, I think jQuery support is a huge
> deal. It certainly is on our site, which (for understandable reasons) often
> has many similar nodes that are only distinguishable based on a custom
> attribute, a distinguishing parent or sibling node, or etc.
>
> The Windmill source is at github.com/windmill/windmill and jQuery support
> is only in the v1.3 beta now. I'm not sure how relevant the implementation
> in Windmill would be to the implementation in Watir...but I include the link
> in case it's helpful, and in case someone is interested in taking a whack at
> it.
>
> I'm happy to chat more about this, on or off list.
>
> Hope all's well with y'all,
>
> --
> Jeff Fry
>
> http://testingjeff.wordpress.com
> http://associationforsoftwaretesting.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>



-- 
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com

Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
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From angrez at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 22:36:00 2009
From: angrez at gmail.com (Angrez Singh)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:06:00 +0530
Subject: [Wtr-development] Policy on Watir Additions
In-Reply-To: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e26bda3e0909301936l501d22cfi9d41a80fa269e3ae@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds reasonable to me.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com> wrote:

> I've just been chatting with Charley about adding some new features to
> Watir 1.7. These were proposed by Alan Baird.
>
> I wanted to share the policy that I've been using recently.
>
> Namely, I've been reluctant to add new methods/features to Watir unless
> whey work with both IE and Firefox. The reason for this is that there are
> already too many differences and making more only makes it harder for people
> to run tests against both browsers.
>
> Anyway, I would like to know whether others think this is a reasonable
> rule.
>
> Bret
>
> --
> Bret Pettichord
> Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com
>
> Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog <http://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/blog>
> Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From paul.rogers at shaw.ca  Wed Sep 30 23:17:58 2009
From: paul.rogers at shaw.ca (Paul Rogers)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:17:58 -0600
Subject: [Wtr-development] jQuery support / experience report with
	Windmill
In-Reply-To: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7eaafaa0909302017y57f5c3edk5c1ea9d4e2098e69@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest that using  jquery doesnt make a very testable application.
The code below is neither readable, nor likely to survive any minor
reorganization of the users html. If you're serious about testability add
ids.

But saying that, I do agree that jquery selectors would help in some cases.

Im not entirely sure that we would ever be able to be truly browser
agnostic, but a goal we should definitely strive for. See Brets post
regarding the element/elements that dont work in firefox.

Paul


On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Jeff Fry <jeff.fry at gmail.com> wrote:

> Re: not adding features that are browser specific to the core of watir: I
> like the idea a lot. Getting to be *really really* browser agnostic is going
> to be important for watir.
>
> On a relatedish note: I've recently been using http://getwindmill.com for
> browser-based test automation, and it has what for me has really turned into
> a killer feature. Backing up a second, the shop I'm at now is VERY python
> focused, and in order to get devs to look at, let alone write, test scripts
> means having them written in python.  Based on this requirement, plus the
> need to handle an AJAX-heavy site, I came across Windmill, which was started
> by some Se devs who started their own project to support very AJAX-y apps.
>
> I started evaluating it, but was frustrated with their API, which is *much*
> less expressive than the watir API. Their/python's xpath implementation is
> pretty zippy, but for most everything I was working on, I ended up needing
> to fall back on xpath selectors, and I was NOT enjoying my xpath learning
> curve.
>
> Anyway, just as I was thinking I might not be able to live with their API,
> they added support for using jQuery in selectors. I hadn't ever used jQuery
> before, but it's super easy to learn, incredibly powerful, and is really
> just harnessing the power (&syntax) of CSS. In many ways, it feels like the
> natural progression of Bret's rail against vendorscripts...an API that's not
> unique to one tool, but can be implemented by any tool, and is in use by a
> rapidly growing group of web developers. More importantly, over one weekend,
> Windmill went from a frustratingly primitive API to one that is more
> powerful than (though not necessarily as elegant as) the Watir API.
>
> Some examples would be handy right about now:
>
> Select based on a regex of a custom attibute's value
>
>    #like it or not, we use /many/ custom attributes. jQuery can select by any of them.
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("a.prop-edit-button[fb__href*=\'%s\']")[0]' % property)
>
> Using *:last* to get the final of several nodes
>
>    c.type(jquery=u'("input.prop-table-edit-thead-primary[fb__pid=\'%s\']:last")[0]' % property, text=value)
>
> Of several nodes of a given class, select the *:visible* one
>
>    self.type(text=topic_name, jquery=u'("input.adddatameta-input:visible")[0]')
>
> Select one node, then go to a child of it
>
>    #find the last form with class foo. within it, find a button that matches regex bar.
>
>    self.click(jquery=u'("form.add-data-form:last button[name=\'add\']")[0]')
>
>    #find a div whose fb__pid matches foo. Within it go to a node of any type with classes .bar and .baz.
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .prop-edit-menu-title.popup-trigger")[0]' % property)
>
>    #is the "Import list" link now visible?
>
>    c.asserts.assertNode(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link:visible")[0]' % property)
>
>    #within a div that matches foo, click on a node with class .bar
>
>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link")[0]' % property)
>
> Now, for the things like this that watir can do, watir typically does them
> more elegantly. But there are other things (like selecting based on custom
> attributes) that jQuery support makes very powerful. The whole jQuery
> selector library is pretty straightforward to learn, and quite well
> documented http://docs.jquery. <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
> com/Selectors <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
>
> By the way, one of the things web devs like about jquery is that it's very
> sandboxable. That allows Windmill to instantiate jquery themselves, and so
> their selectors work exactly the same whether or not the site under test
> uses jquery in the page, and don't materially change the AUT. (As a tester
> I'll note that these are bold assertions, but that the data I've seen so far
> has been quite encouraging.)
>
> At this point, having used it for a while, I think jQuery support is a huge
> deal. It certainly is on our site, which (for understandable reasons) often
> has many similar nodes that are only distinguishable based on a custom
> attribute, a distinguishing parent or sibling node, or etc.
>
> The Windmill source is at github.com/windmill/windmill and jQuery support
> is only in the v1.3 beta now. I'm not sure how relevant the implementation
> in Windmill would be to the implementation in Watir...but I include the link
> in case it's helpful, and in case someone is interested in taking a whack at
> it.
>
> I'm happy to chat more about this, on or off list.
>
> Hope all's well with y'all,
>
> --
> Jeff Fry
>
> http://testingjeff.wordpress.com
> http://associationforsoftwaretesting.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From abaird at bairdsnet.net  Wed Sep 30 23:50:02 2009
From: abaird at bairdsnet.net (Alan Baird)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:50:02 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] Policy on Watir Additions
In-Reply-To: <e26bda3e0909301936l501d22cfi9d41a80fa269e3ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade75c5b0909301243v4ff3157dsd5747f86bad5a759@mail.gmail.com>
	<e26bda3e0909301936l501d22cfi9d41a80fa269e3ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2a379a300909302050o542fc75co3a3a7d3180aecb88@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds just fine to me in theory.  Ideally all of the Watir features
should "just work" across both and I don't think we shouldn't try.
However, the unintended side affect might be you get less contributions if
all contributions have to be cross platform.  Most of our code that we would
consider contributing are things we have already coded and want to
contribute to the community.  However, since Firefox isn't required by our
customers, we don't have any reason to code tests for it, and I don't think
our shop is the only one that's like this.

I think another problem might be that people aren't as familiar with the way
that FireWatir works as opposed to Watir (I know that's my problem).  Are
there any resources out there that explain more about this?  Maybe I can
collect some links or write up a Wiki article on this.

Sorry if I'm kind of thinking out loud here.  I certainly understand why we
want them to be as equal as possible.

Alan

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Angrez Singh <angrez at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sounds reasonable to me.
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Bret Pettichord <bret at pettichord.com>wrote:
>
>> I've just been chatting with Charley about adding some new features to
>> Watir 1.7. These were proposed by Alan Baird.
>>
>> I wanted to share the policy that I've been using recently.
>>
>> Namely, I've been reluctant to add new methods/features to Watir unless
>> whey work with both IE and Firefox. The reason for this is that there are
>> already too many differences and making more only makes it harder for people
>> to run tests against both browsers.
>>
>> Anyway, I would like to know whether others think this is a reasonable
>> rule.
>>
>> Bret
>>
>> --
>> Bret Pettichord
>> Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com
>>
>> Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog <http://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/blog>
>> Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wtr-development mailing list
>> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>
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From bret at pettichord.com  Wed Sep 30 23:52:21 2009
From: bret at pettichord.com (Bret Pettichord)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:52:21 -0500
Subject: [Wtr-development] jQuery support / experience report with
	Windmill
In-Reply-To: <e7eaafaa0909302017y57f5c3edk5c1ea9d4e2098e69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <970956b0909301453m52f6de56ha7c65a61c3bfad7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eaafaa0909302017y57f5c3edk5c1ea9d4e2098e69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ade75c5b0909302052n7cf64891vf6885fa81eb79e49@mail.gmail.com>

So here is how i think development of watir features ... develops.

1. Somebody has an idea
2. Somebody creates an implementation
3. Somebody adds the code to a fork on github
4. Somebody adds some tests
5. Somebody makes sure the feature works with both IE and Firefox
6. Somebody makes the case that the feature should be added to the official
release
7. We pull it in.

I see Jeff right now at step 1, trying to get to step 2. Paul is saying it
might be hard to get to step 5 and therefore step 7 (which I guess I agree
with).

But i would really like to see more people doing 2 and 3 first and then we
can discuss whether it might go all the way to step 7.

Bret

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Paul Rogers <paul.rogers at shaw.ca> wrote:

> I would suggest that using  jquery doesnt make a very testable application.
> The code below is neither readable, nor likely to survive any minor
> reorganization of the users html. If you're serious about testability add
> ids.
>
> But saying that, I do agree that jquery selectors would help in some cases.
>
> Im not entirely sure that we would ever be able to be truly browser
> agnostic, but a goal we should definitely strive for. See Brets post
> regarding the element/elements that dont work in firefox.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Jeff Fry <jeff.fry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Re: not adding features that are browser specific to the core of watir: I
>> like the idea a lot. Getting to be *really really* browser agnostic is going
>> to be important for watir.
>>
>> On a relatedish note: I've recently been using http://getwindmill.com for
>> browser-based test automation, and it has what for me has really turned into
>> a killer feature. Backing up a second, the shop I'm at now is VERY python
>> focused, and in order to get devs to look at, let alone write, test scripts
>> means having them written in python.  Based on this requirement, plus the
>> need to handle an AJAX-heavy site, I came across Windmill, which was started
>> by some Se devs who started their own project to support very AJAX-y apps.
>>
>> I started evaluating it, but was frustrated with their API, which is
>> *much* less expressive than the watir API. Their/python's xpath
>> implementation is pretty zippy, but for most everything I was working on, I
>> ended up needing to fall back on xpath selectors, and I was NOT enjoying my
>> xpath learning curve.
>>
>> Anyway, just as I was thinking I might not be able to live with their API,
>> they added support for using jQuery in selectors. I hadn't ever used jQuery
>> before, but it's super easy to learn, incredibly powerful, and is really
>> just harnessing the power (&syntax) of CSS. In many ways, it feels like the
>> natural progression of Bret's rail against vendorscripts...an API that's not
>> unique to one tool, but can be implemented by any tool, and is in use by a
>> rapidly growing group of web developers. More importantly, over one weekend,
>> Windmill went from a frustratingly primitive API to one that is more
>> powerful than (though not necessarily as elegant as) the Watir API.
>>
>> Some examples would be handy right about now:
>>
>> Select based on a regex of a custom attibute's value
>>
>>    #like it or not, we use /many/ custom attributes. jQuery can select by any of them.
>>
>>    c.click(jquery=u'("a.prop-edit-button[fb__href*=\'%s\']")[0]' % property)
>>
>> Using *:last* to get the final of several nodes
>>
>>    c.type(jquery=u'("input.prop-table-edit-thead-primary[fb__pid=\'%s\']:last")[0]' % property, text=value)
>>
>> Of several nodes of a given class, select the *:visible* one
>>
>>    self.type(text=topic_name, jquery=u'("input.adddatameta-input:visible")[0]')
>>
>> Select one node, then go to a child of it
>>
>>    #find the last form with class foo. within it, find a button that matches regex bar.
>>
>>    self.click(jquery=u'("form.add-data-form:last button[name=\'add\']")[0]')
>>
>>    #find a div whose fb__pid matches foo. Within it go to a node of any type with classes .bar and .baz.
>>
>>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .prop-edit-menu-title.popup-trigger")[0]' % property)
>>
>>    #is the "Import list" link now visible?
>>
>>    c.asserts.assertNode(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link:visible")[0]' % property)
>>
>>    #within a div that matches foo, click on a node with class .bar
>>
>>    c.click(jquery=u'("div[fb__pid*=\'%s\'] .import-link")[0]' % property)
>>
>> Now, for the things like this that watir can do, watir typically does them
>> more elegantly. But there are other things (like selecting based on custom
>> attributes) that jQuery support makes very powerful. The whole jQuery
>> selector library is pretty straightforward to learn, and quite well
>> documented http://docs.jquery. <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
>> com/Selectors <http://docs.jquery.com/Selectors>
>>
>> By the way, one of the things web devs like about jquery is that it's very
>> sandboxable. That allows Windmill to instantiate jquery themselves, and so
>> their selectors work exactly the same whether or not the site under test
>> uses jquery in the page, and don't materially change the AUT. (As a tester
>> I'll note that these are bold assertions, but that the data I've seen so far
>> has been quite encouraging.)
>>
>> At this point, having used it for a while, I think jQuery support is a
>> huge deal. It certainly is on our site, which (for understandable reasons)
>> often has many similar nodes that are only distinguishable based on a custom
>> attribute, a distinguishing parent or sibling node, or etc.
>>
>> The Windmill source is at github.com/windmill/windmill and jQuery support
>> is only in the v1.3 beta now. I'm not sure how relevant the implementation
>> in Windmill would be to the implementation in Watir...but I include the link
>> in case it's helpful, and in case someone is interested in taking a whack at
>> it.
>>
>> I'm happy to chat more about this, on or off list.
>>
>> Hope all's well with y'all,
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Fry
>>
>> http://testingjeff.wordpress.com
>> http://associationforsoftwaretesting.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wtr-development mailing list
>> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wtr-development mailing list
> Wtr-development at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-development
>



-- 
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com

Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord
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