From ng at johnwlong.com Fri Dec 1 11:32:32 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:32:32 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: > At the moment I have only addressed the problems for those with low acuity, > who will need better contrast and bigger text. This is an area more > familiar to me than the other areas that need addressing. Once there > is one alternate stylesheet, and the mechanism established for others, > I'm sure you'll get contributions for other matters. Hugh, Since the differences between this stylesheet and the old stylesheet are minimal I've opted not to use this for Ruby-Lang.org. I do appreciate your work on it. My worry is that the maintenance needs for alternate stylesheets will outweigh their value. Particularly, as newer browsers are released and the need to revisit stylesheets becomes apparent. One of the hazards of maintaining multiple versions of a product is that it can greatly reduce the speed in which changes can be made. Since our staff for Ruby-Lang is entirely volunteer at the moment it seems prudent that we minimize the maintenance needs of the site. I hope that this doesn't come as too much of a letdown for you. I suspect that Ruby-Lang will outgrow the current design at some point in the next year or two which means that we will probably need to revisit the design then. Perhaps we can address the issues you have raised at that time. -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Fri Dec 1 13:53:13 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:53:13 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > > At the moment I have only addressed the problems for those with low acuity, > > who will need better contrast and bigger text. This is an area more > > familiar to me than the other areas that need addressing. Once there > > is one alternate stylesheet, and the mechanism established for others, > > I'm sure you'll get contributions for other matters. > > Hugh, > > Since the differences between this stylesheet and the old stylesheet are > minimal I've opted not to use this for Ruby-Lang.org. I do appreciate The changes are small, but significant. The present setup causes me physical pain to read. I don't have stats for visual impairment, but I know there are others with worse sight than me who don't use speech and braille for this. I have also kept the changes small so that I don't completely change the aesthetics of the site. It may well be worth being more adventurous, but that seems inappropriate for a first submission. > your work on it. My worry is that the maintenance needs for alternate > stylesheets will outweigh their value. Particularly, as newer browsers Let's take each one on its merits? > are released and the need to revisit stylesheets becomes apparent. One > of the hazards of maintaining multiple versions of a product is that it > can greatly reduce the speed in which changes can be made. Since our I'm all in favour of not breaking DRY, but doesn't this just mean that the stylesheets should be automatically generated? Maybe we need some kind of discussion about what tools exist to maintain slightly different versions of documents. Beyond an original and patches I don't know of common practice in this area. OTOH, can CSS do #include or require or something to manage changes? (I don't work in CSS that often, so am not au fait with its lesser used features). A quick hunt through the spec suggests @import may be applicable here http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html#at-import so some refactoring may be possible. Anyway, isn't the whole point of a CMS to manage this kind of complexity? > staff for Ruby-Lang is entirely volunteer at the moment it seems prudent > that we minimize the maintenance needs of the site. > > I hope that this doesn't come as too much of a letdown for you. I Well, if the site were more accessible I'd explore it more and contribute. Plus, Ruby is not principally GUI based, and as such is accessible to blind people. There is no assumption (apart from the association with Rails) that GUI work is an integral part of the Ruby scene. Thus excluding people by not considering accessibility on the main site will stop some people becoming rubyists when there is no other reason for them to be put off. I've been put off using Squeak because the GUI was inaccessible to me. > suspect that Ruby-Lang will outgrow the current design at some point in Websites always change, or die completely. > the next year or two which means that we will probably need to revisit > the design then. Perhaps we can address the issues you have raised at > that time. I have put quite a bit of work into Ruby, particularly its documentation, getting a whole slew of files added into the Rdoc set for 1.8.5 by working on the .document files, for example. Now it feels as though I'm being told to go away for a year or two. It's pretty difficult not to take offence at this. I have, after all, contributed a patch which solves the problem for me, and may provoke discussion, so it isn't like I'm just complaining. If the patching process is straightforward I would be willing to contribute further, but I can't speak for others with differing needs. Once I see how the patch plays out, and affects other pages on the site and other people, I may have other contributions. Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Sat Dec 2 07:37:30 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 07:37:30 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: >> your work on it. My worry is that the maintenance needs for alternate >> stylesheets will outweigh their value. Particularly, as newer browsers >> are released and the need to revisit stylesheets becomes apparent. One >> of the hazards of maintaining multiple versions of a product is that it >> can greatly reduce the speed in which changes can be made. Since our > > OTOH, can CSS do #include or require or something to manage changes? > (I don't work in CSS that often, so am not au fait with its lesser > used features). A quick hunt through the spec suggests @import > may be applicable here > > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html#at-import > > so some refactoring may be possible. After thinking about this a little more I am willing to reconsider. @import is the appropriate method. Can you get me a version of your changes that uses @import? Basically it should work like this: low_vision_screen.css: @import url(/stylesheets/shared.css); @import url(/stylesheets/high.css); @import url(/stylesheets/low_vision_high.css); Styles in low_vision_high.css should include styles that override the styles in the other two for low vision users. You can use !important to enforce the rule when necessary. For instance: body { font-size: %120 !important; } As you said, keeping it DRY is important. Let me know if you have any questions. > I have put quite a bit of work into Ruby, particularly its > documentation, getting a whole slew of files added into the Rdoc set > for 1.8.5 by working on the .document files, for example. Now it > feels as though I'm being told to go away for a year or two. It's > pretty difficult not to take offense at this. ... Forgive me Hugh. I didn't mean to minimize your contributions to Ruby or the help that you are offering for the Ruby Web site. Please understand that the site has large number of users and we try to balance the needs of all of the users in the changes that we work on. That said making the site accessible to people with visual impairment is important and I appreciate your willingness to bring it to our attention. -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Mon Dec 4 07:48:09 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:48:09 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > >> your work on it. My worry is that the maintenance needs for alternate > >> stylesheets will outweigh their value. Particularly, as newer browsers > >> are released and the need to revisit stylesheets becomes apparent. One > >> of the hazards of maintaining multiple versions of a product is that it > >> can greatly reduce the speed in which changes can be made. Since our > > > > OTOH, can CSS do #include or require or something to manage changes? > > (I don't work in CSS that often, so am not au fait with its lesser > > used features). A quick hunt through the spec suggests @import > > may be applicable here > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html#at-import > > > > so some refactoring may be possible. > > After thinking about this a little more I am willing to reconsider. > @import is the appropriate method. Can you get me a version of your > changes that uses @import? > > Basically it should work like this: > > low_vision_screen.css: > @import url(/stylesheets/shared.css); > @import url(/stylesheets/high.css); > @import url(/stylesheets/low_vision_high.css); > > Styles in low_vision_high.css should include styles that override the > styles in the other two for low vision users. You can use !important to > enforce the rule when necessary. For instance: > > body { > font-size: %120 !important; > } > > As you said, keeping it DRY is important. Let me know if you have any > questions. Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: --- stylesheets/screen_lo_vis.css.orig 1980-01-01 00:00:00.000000000 +0000 +++ stylesheets/screen_lo_vis.css 2006-09-15 15:32:03.614018000 +0100 @@ -0,0 +1,6 @@ +/* + screen_lo_vis.css - styles for the screen for visually impaired people +*/ + + at import url(/stylesheets/high_lo_vis.css); + at import url(/stylesheets/shared_lo_vis.css); --- stylesheets/high_lo_vis.css.orig 1980-01-01 00:00:00.000000000 +0000 +++ stylesheets/high_lo_vis.css 2006-12-04 11:54:50.792950000 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,48 @@ +/* + high.css - styles for modern browsers, but for people with low vision. +*/ + + at import url(/stylesheets/high.css) screen; + +#content #news ul a { + color: #1111ee; + font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; +} +#content dl dt { + font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; +} +#sidebar { + font-size: 90%; +} +#sidebar h3 { + background-image: none; */ +} +#sidebar .navigation ul li { + background-image: none; */ +} +#sidebar .navigation .menu a, +#sidebar .navigation .more a { + color: #1111ee; +} +#sidebar .navigation a { + color: #1111ee; + text-decoration: none; +} +#search-box { + width: 738px; +} +#search-form { + position: absolute; + top: 57px; + width: 738px; + height: 50px: +} +#search-form .field { + width: 214px; + height: 48px; +} +#search-form .button { + width: 148px; + height: 48px; +} + --- stylesheets/shared_lo_vis.css.orig 1980-01-01 00:00:00.000000000 +0000 +++ stylesheets/shared_lo_vis.css 2006-12-04 12:05:37.447447000 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,37 @@ +/* + shared.css - styles shared between print and high but for low vision +*/ + at import url(/stylesheets/shared.css); +body { + font-size: 90%; +} +#content h2 { + font-size: 180%; +} +#content h3 { + color: #b60a0a; + font-size: 180%; + line-height: 120%; +} +#content h4 { + font-size: 170%; + line-height: 120%; +} +#content h5 { + font-size: 120%; + line-height: 120%; +} +#content .post-info { + color: #706f59; + font-size: 100%; +} +#search-form .field { + border: 4px solid #a3a39f; +} +#search-form .button { + border: 4px solid #a3a39f; + background-color: #f6f6e7; + color: #9b9b95; + font-size: 24px; +} + --- en/index.html.orig 2006-12-04 12:20:29.109230000 +0000 +++ en/index.html 2006-12-04 12:25:44.176805000 +0000 @@ -5,6 +5,7 @@ Ruby Programming Language + I want to avoid !important statements if possible: the priorities are different between CSS1 and CSS2. Hopefully the above changes are as small as possible being based on differences. (Some of the search form stuff is unchanged, but I'm likely to change them soon, so have left them in for now). It is odd that diffutils provide no tools for extracting common lines from a set of files. This is about the minimal change to site style that makes the site accessible to me. This aims to give people as near the same experience as other people as possible whilst preserving accessibility. Clearly the refs to alternate stylesheets will need to be replicated across the other pages, but I think your CMS does something of that sort anyway. Would it be worth exposing the source (input to the CMS0 so that we can send you patches against that in future? Once we are agreed on how this stuff should be dealt with, what shape the alternate stylesheets should take in general, then I'll look into providing light-on-dark, black-on-yellow styles, or something. I'd also like to explore the removal of all advice about font sizes so the user's browser does what they set it up to do. I don't think this will be that soon though Thank you, Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Tue Dec 5 11:24:52 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:24:52 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <45759D54.300@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: > +#sidebar h3 { > + background-image: none; */ > +} > +#sidebar .navigation ul li { > + background-image: none; */ > +} Hugh, with the above rules you remove the dotted underline that separates the menu elements. Is this intentional? Also is the "*/" just leftover from a comment and should be removed? or is it some sort of hack to get the rule to only be applied in certain browsers? -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Tue Dec 5 12:20:33 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:20:33 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <45759D54.300@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <45759D54.300@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > > +#sidebar h3 { > > + background-image: none; */ > > +} > > +#sidebar .navigation ul li { > > + background-image: none; */ > > +} > > Hugh, with the above rules you remove the dotted underline that > separates the menu elements. Is this intentional? I was trying to simplify the layout, but having tried it with the image in place (turning the broken comments back on :-)) I don't find the dashed lines distracting. I can't figure out why the sidebar won't expand its width to fit the bigger print, but I can live without that for now. > > Also is the "*/" just leftover from a comment and should be removed? or Tripped up by syntax highlighting not complaining -- yes, that should go. Thank you. So that means these lines can go completely. Thanks for spotting those. > is it some sort of hack to get the rule to only be applied in certain > browsers? No, I'm not fluent enough in CSS for fancy stuff like that! :-) > Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Tue Dec 5 14:23:15 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:23:15 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: > Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, > the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: I made a few minor changes and put it live. Thanks Hugh! -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Tue Dec 5 15:21:17 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:21:17 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > > Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, > > the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: > > I made a few minor changes and put it live. Thanks. That is working for me. Couple of things: 1 In firefox the choice of stylesheet isn't sticky: I don't get that style for all pages having chosen it once. Is this possible, or do I need to tweak firefox, somehow? 2 It might be worth adding this change as a news item for the site. Maybe something like: We have started to provide alternate stylesheets for this site. As a first attempt we have a sheet for people with low vision, which enlarges the text a little, increases the contrast in some places but generally tries to keep the experience the same. We'd like feedback on this, and contributions of other stylesheets. There has been discussion of white on black, or black on yellow colour schemes for example. We also don't have any stylesheets for braille devices yet. This probably depends on how this supply of stylesheets will scale, how you plan to manage the flood [!], etc. You can give me the blame for the inadequacy of this sheet if you wish, since it doesn't do all I'd wish to provide. That's about it for now, I think. Thanks for installing this. > > Thanks Hugh! > Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Tue Dec 5 15:58:01 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:58:01 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: >>> Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, >>> the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: >> I made a few minor changes and put it live. > > Thanks. That is working for me. Couple of things: > > 1 In firefox the choice of stylesheet isn't sticky: I don't get that > style for all pages having chosen it once. Is this possible, or > do I need to tweak firefox, somehow? I'm not sure. I don't do much with alternate stylesheets myself. Please do investigate. We may need to use javascript to set a cookie to preserve the stylesheet choice. > 2 It might be worth adding this change as a news item for the site. > > Maybe something like: > > We have started to provide alternate stylesheets for this site. > As a first attempt we have a sheet for people with low vision, which > enlarges the text a little, increases the contrast in some places > but generally tries to keep the experience the same. We'd like > feedback on this, and contributions of other stylesheets. There > has been discussion of white on black, or black on yellow colour > schemes for example. We also don't have any stylesheets for > braille devices yet. > > This probably depends on how this supply of stylesheets will scale, > how you plan to manage the flood [!], etc. You can give me the > blame for the inadequacy of this sheet if you wish, since it doesn't > do all I'd wish to provide. Perhaps an announcement on Ruby-Talk asking for feedback on just low vision stylesheet would be more appropriate? One thing we should be clear on is that we are not accepting alternate stylesheets just to suite a user's stylistic preferences. We would like to make the site more accessible to a broader range of people. An alternate high-contrast stylesheet in the same style as the original with minimal changes would be acceptable. Also a stylesheet for braille devices would be acceptable. A totally different stylesheet would not be acceptable. -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Wed Dec 6 05:02:12 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:02:12 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > >>> Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, > >>> the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: > >> I made a few minor changes and put it live. > > > > Thanks. That is working for me. Couple of things: > > > > 1 In firefox the choice of stylesheet isn't sticky: I don't get that > > style for all pages having chosen it once. Is this possible, or > > do I need to tweak firefox, somehow? > > I'm not sure. I don't do much with alternate stylesheets myself. Please > do investigate. We may need to use javascript to set a cookie to > preserve the stylesheet choice. OK, I'll see if I can find out from the Mozilla Forum. > > > 2 It might be worth adding this change as a news item for the site. > > > > Maybe something like: > > > > We have started to provide alternate stylesheets for this site. > > As a first attempt we have a sheet for people with low vision, which > > enlarges the text a little, increases the contrast in some places > > but generally tries to keep the experience the same. We'd like > > feedback on this, and contributions of other stylesheets. There > > has been discussion of white on black, or black on yellow colour > > schemes for example. We also don't have any stylesheets for > > braille devices yet. > > > > This probably depends on how this supply of stylesheets will scale, > > how you plan to manage the flood [!], etc. You can give me the > > blame for the inadequacy of this sheet if you wish, since it doesn't > > do all I'd wish to provide. > > Perhaps an announcement on Ruby-Talk asking for feedback on just low > vision stylesheet would be more appropriate? OK... > > One thing we should be clear on is that we are not accepting alternate > stylesheets just to suite a user's stylistic preferences. We would like > to make the site more accessible to a broader range of people. An Yes, agreed. Otherwise we end up with a vast number, because "the oceans are just the wrong shade of pink"... > alternate high-contrast stylesheet in the same style as the original > with minimal changes would be acceptable. Also a stylesheet for braille > devices would be acceptable. A totally different stylesheet would not be > acceptable. Which is why my changes were so conservative. Hmm, given you are probably more aware of the constraints on the CMS, on those who have commit access, etc, would you like to draft and/or just send the message to Ruby-Talk? I'm happy if you use the above text that I wrote as a starter. That way there are only volunteers, no pressmen, so to speak :-) > Thank you, Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Wed Dec 6 16:50:36 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:50:36 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <45773B2C.8000304@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: > Which is why my changes were so conservative. Hmm, given you are probably > more aware of the constraints on the CMS, on those who have commit access, > etc, would you like to draft and/or just send the message to Ruby-Talk? > I'm happy if you use the above text that I wrote as a starter. That way > there are only volunteers, no pressmen, so to speak :-) Ok. I posted an announcement on Ruby-Lang. Let the changes roll in. :-) -- John From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Thu Dec 7 05:16:48 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:16:48 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > >>> Here is the first cut, which does't quite follow the above scheme, > >>> the low vision stylesheets @import from their default equivalents: > >> I made a few minor changes and put it live. > > > > Thanks. That is working for me. Couple of things: > > > > 1 In firefox the choice of stylesheet isn't sticky: I don't get that > > style for all pages having chosen it once. Is this possible, or > > do I need to tweak firefox, somehow? > > I'm not sure. I don't do much with alternate stylesheets myself. Please > do investigate. We may need to use javascript to set a cookie to > preserve the stylesheet choice. > I've asked on the Firefox site. Not many browsers do this, apparently and I was referred to here: http://alistapart.com/stories/alternate/ which is how to use cookies to do this. A quick look through shows it does use JavaScript to do this and handle IE not providing menus for alternate stylesheets. And I can't see any in IE 7. Also it is unclear what is to happen when cookies are disabled. There is a certain level of suspicion about cookies, and I don't think things should break if they are turned off. It might be worth noting what we are using them for. I'm not fluent in JavaScript at all. I've asked about modifying Firefox, or possibly Adblock to provide this, and what I'd need to do to get this as an RFE, but that only helps FireFox users, of course. Hugh From ng at johnwlong.com Thu Dec 7 10:24:21 2006 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:24:21 -0500 Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <45783225.1010301@johnwlong.com> Hugh Sasse wrote: > I've asked on the Firefox site. Not many browsers do this, apparently > and I was referred to here: > > http://alistapart.com/stories/alternate/ > > which is how to use cookies to do this. A quick look through shows > it does use JavaScript to do this and handle IE not providing menus > for alternate stylesheets. And I can't see any in IE 7. > Also it is unclear what is to happen when cookies are disabled. > There is a certain level of suspicion about cookies, and I don't > think things should break if they are turned off. It might be worth > noting what we are using them for. I'm not fluent in JavaScript at > all. The one site I did something similar to this on was: http://start.iblp.org/ A friend of mine actually did the coding though. I think she used the same ALA article that you refer to. The presentation is also nice: Select a theme: clean | periwinkle | olive | midnight | tropical Perhaps ours could say: Stylesheet: Default | Low Vision ... Would you be able to pull this together Hugh? Be sure to put as much of the javascript into a separate file. -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Thu Dec 7 12:29:14 2006 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:29:14 +0000 (WET) Subject: [Vit-discuss] CSS mods: low vision, a first step (patch) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <45783225.1010301@johnwlong.com> References: <4567C5C5.1020306@johnwlong.com> <45705920.1060706@johnwlong.com> <4571738A.5030608@johnwlong.com> <4575C723.1000005@johnwlong.com> <4575DD59.1020209@johnwlong.com> <45783225.1010301@johnwlong.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, John W. Long wrote: > Hugh Sasse wrote: > > I've asked on the Firefox site. Not many browsers do this, apparently > > and I was referred to here: > > > > http://alistapart.com/stories/alternate/ > > > > which is how to use cookies to do this. A quick look through shows > > it does use JavaScript to do this and handle IE not providing menus > > for alternate stylesheets. And I can't see any in IE 7. > > Also it is unclear what is to happen when cookies are disabled. > > There is a certain level of suspicion about cookies, and I don't > > think things should break if they are turned off. It might be worth > > noting what we are using them for. I'm not fluent in JavaScript at > > all. > > The one site I did something similar to this on was: > > http://start.iblp.org/ Interesing. I think if all the paragraphs were in divs, it would work better with large print. > > A friend of mine actually did the coding though. I think she used the > same ALA article that you refer to. Do you know her well enough to ask for some help? :-) > > The presentation is also nice: > > Select a theme: clean | periwinkle | olive | midnight | tropical > > Perhaps ours could say: > > Stylesheet: Default | Low Vision ... > > Would you be able to pull this together Hugh? Be sure to put as much of > the javascript into a separate file. I've never done any javascript work, even with rails. If I get chance, I'll see what I can make of it, but I'm hoping someone else can do this. > Hugh From martindemello at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 11:07:58 2006 From: martindemello at gmail.com (Martin DeMello) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:37:58 +0530 Subject: [Vit-discuss] the 'download ruby' button Message-ID: I went to download the ruby source from the homepage today, and my eye sort of skipped past the 'download ruby' button, looking for the clickable link under it, since the color scheme makes it look like a header. I suggest the following change: -------------------------------- | Download Ruby | -------------------------------- | Latest version: 1.8.5_p2 | -------------------------------- Where the 'latest version' box is in the same style as the list entries in subsequent sidebar boxes, and has the same clickable download link that the button does. martin