From bg-vit at infofiend.com Fri Feb 25 12:27:16 2005 From: bg-vit at infofiend.com (Ben Giddings) Date: Fri Feb 25 12:22:59 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] Tag! Message-ID: <421F5FF4.6040309@infofiend.com> We're it. I feel kinda funny being on this list and having such poor graphic skills, but I'll try to make up for that by pure Moxy. Do you guys think we should make the list and archives non-public for the moment? I think it might be a good idea, just so we can hold off on people making comments on designs until we're ready to unveil them. I have no problem with making them public when we're done. Ben From blaumag at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 13:31:29 2005 From: blaumag at gmail.com (Michel Martens) Date: Fri Feb 25 13:27:36 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] Tag! In-Reply-To: <421F5FF4.6040309@infofiend.com> References: <421F5FF4.6040309@infofiend.com> Message-ID: <6a65064605022510312dc5a303@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:27:16 -0500, Ben Giddings wrote: > We're it. > > Do you guys think we should make the list and archives non-public for the moment? Non public. I?m very shy when designing. Michel From ng at johnwlong.com Sat Feb 26 16:01:30 2005 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Sat Feb 26 15:57:35 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] My Second Comp Message-ID: <1109451690.4220e3aaa6e73@webmail.johnwlong.com> Ok here's my second comp: http://johnwlong.com/rubyidentity/homepage2.0.png This one's totally devoid of color because I wanted to focus on structure and content, not the color palette. It includes many elements which I consider important for the home page: * a tag line * a good about paragraph * easy access to the download page * featured announcement * latest news * a highlighted ruby project * links to other top ruby projects * easy searching (the combo box allows you to narrow your search to just documentation, the website, blogs, etc...) * easy access to the top level sections of the site Feedback? Comments? -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From bg-vit at infofiend.com Sun Feb 27 00:26:35 2005 From: bg-vit at infofiend.com (Ben Giddings) Date: Sun Feb 27 00:22:49 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] My first mockup Message-ID: <842c8384ea6f1b5252db076f802a811c@infofiend.com> Luckily John went first with the "no colour or graphics" thing so I don't look nearly as bad. http://infofiend.com/RubyMockup.xhtml I'm aiming for some of the same core elements as John, but the end result looks pretty different. With my approach, I'm trying to emphasize: * What is Ruby? (a paragraph and some sample code) * Where do I get Ruby and Ruby apps and libs? * How do I do something in Ruby? (You also get Who and When from my sample paragraph. :) ) My approach differs from John's in that I really downplay announcements/news, and have even fewer links. John and Why: do you agree we should make the VIT Core list non-public? I think it's better if we keep our discussions closed for the moment, and then present a unified front when we're ready to announce something. I also wonder if we should ask the rest of the people on the VIT list to help out with some other things, like: * designing a Ruby logo, or a set of logos (main page, web badge, favicon, etc) * coming up with a Ruby tagline unless we're set on keeping "A programmer's best friend" * coming up with a 1-paragraph intro to Ruby Since the VIT core team was announced, the VIT list has been completely dead, and I don't think that's a good thing. There's still a lot that people can do to help, and I don't want to see the enthusiasm go away just because they're not on the core team. Ben From blaumag at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 08:29:26 2005 From: blaumag at gmail.com (Michel Martens) Date: Mon Feb 28 08:25:25 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] My Second Comp In-Reply-To: <1109451690.4220e3aaa6e73@webmail.johnwlong.com> References: <1109451690.4220e3aaa6e73@webmail.johnwlong.com> Message-ID: <6a6506460502280529672344e0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:01:30 -0500, John W. Long wrote: > * a tag line I'm not a big fan of tag lines, but I almost see it as a requirement because of public demand. Maybe it would be better put as "The programmer's best friend", but don't take it for granted coming from a Spanish speaker. > * a good about paragraph It's an idea we both share, and I was working on the same approach. Talking about the content of that paragraph, I would left out any reference to other languages and let the code sample --as seen in Ben's mockup-- speak for itself. > * easy access to the download page > * featured announcement > * latest news > * a highlighted ruby project > * links to other top ruby projects > * easy searching (the combo box allows you to narrow your search to > just documentation, the website, blogs, etc...) I tend to avoid combo boxes as much as I can. Here I think we can take it out and work on usable results. > * easy access to the top level sections of the site > > Feedback? Comments? Great job, though I don't like your choice for colors (just kidding). Michel. From blaumag at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 09:47:27 2005 From: blaumag at gmail.com (Michel Martens) Date: Mon Feb 28 09:43:27 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] My first mockup In-Reply-To: <842c8384ea6f1b5252db076f802a811c@infofiend.com> References: <842c8384ea6f1b5252db076f802a811c@infofiend.com> Message-ID: <6a6506460502280647d5c6632@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:26:35 -0500, Ben Giddings wrote: > * What is Ruby? (a paragraph and some sample code) > * Where do I get Ruby and Ruby apps and libs? > * How do I do something in Ruby? I like the idea of less links and less information. I don't like sections defined with questions, maybe it would be better with "Introduction" and "Download". I would take out the "How do I..." section and replace it with a "Learn more..." link below the example code. Also I think the example code would be better without ARGV[0], shebang, etc. In my opinion, it is not necessary for the sample code to be a full working "hello world" program. Instead, it can comprise three lines of code --with a focus on readability and beauty-- showing the object orientedness of Ruby. Perhaps something like this: 10.times do print "hello world!'.capitalize end Anyway, please don't focus on my example but on the idea described above. > My approach differs from John's in that I really downplay > announcements/news, and have even fewer links. > I also wonder if we should ask the rest of the people on the VIT list > to help out with some other things, like: > > * designing a Ruby logo, or a set of logos (main page, web badge, > favicon, etc) > * coming up with a Ruby tagline unless we're set on keeping "A > programmer's best friend" > * coming up with a 1-paragraph intro to Ruby I think it will be better to keep it as a backup option, and first work on a full featured proposal (full featured: with logo, favicon, tag line and intro paragraph). If our proposal doesn't work, then we can open a contest or ask for help. > Since the VIT core team was announced, the VIT list has been completely > dead, and I don't think that's a good thing. There's still a lot that > people can do to help, and I don't want to see the enthusiasm go away > just because they're not on the core team. I think we will get our job done sooner than what everyone thinks. It's OK to have a quiet list for two weeks, because when we finally show our proposal it will be boiling again. Two tasks that deserve separate lists (and that can be a topic on the VIT list) are: - The short introduction to Ruby - The updated and user friendly Ruby reference I guess a big discussion will arise and a new team will come out to work on those issues. Michel. From bg-vit at infofiend.com Mon Feb 28 17:09:16 2005 From: bg-vit at infofiend.com (Ben Giddings) Date: Mon Feb 28 17:04:52 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] My first mockup In-Reply-To: <6a6506460502280647d5c6632@mail.gmail.com> References: <842c8384ea6f1b5252db076f802a811c@infofiend.com> <6a6506460502280647d5c6632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4223968C.5020904@infofiend.com> Michel Martens wrote: > I like the idea of less links and less information. I don't like > sections defined with questions, maybe it would be better with > "Introduction" and "Download". Sure, that's fine with me. I was just trying a slightly different take on it. The main point is the content of the sections. One effectively answers the question "What is Ruby?" and a few associated questions ("Who created it?", "Where did it come from?", "Who uses it?"...). The second tries to answer the question "Where can I get Ruby and Ruby programs and libraries?" It might also have links to get Ruby from CVS, etc. The third is for people who already have Ruby and want to either learn more about it, or who want reference materials. So it tries to answer the question "How do I do ____ in Ruby?" > I would take out the "How do I..." > section and replace it with a "Learn more..." link below the example > code. So there wouldn't even be a link to the API docs or any other docs from the main page? I could see that working... Instead of those things being 1 click away, they'd be 2 clicks away. But presumably the people who'd be interested in those things would have already downloaded Ruby, so they'd be willing to spend a few more seconds finding the documents. > Also I think the example code would be better without ARGV[0], > shebang, etc. In my opinion, it is not necessary for the sample code > to be a full working "hello world" program. Instead, it can comprise > three lines of code --with a focus on readability and beauty-- showing > the object orientedness of Ruby. Perhaps something like this: > > 10.times do > print "hello world!'.capitalize > end Sure, that would be another option. Another idea I had is to not have only one bit of sample code. We could have a whole set of different sample programs, and randomly show a different one each time someone visits the page. That would add a certain element of freshness to the page too. Each one could have a main feature they're showing off (OOness, blocks, string interpolation, @vars & attr_accessor, ARGV[], etc.) I think having sample code on the first page is a really useful feature though. When I hear about a new language, what it looks like is one of the things I'm most curious about. > I think it will be better to keep it as a backup option, and first > work on a full featured proposal (full featured: with logo, favicon, > tag line and intro paragraph). If our proposal doesn't work, then we > can open a contest or ask for help. Sure, I'm fine with that. > - The short introduction to Ruby > - The updated and user friendly Ruby reference Reference being what, a language reference, an online book like "Programming Ruby", or an API reference? IMHO, I think one of the things that's most needed for seasoned Ruby programmers is a user-friendly API reference. Ideally, one without frames. I was trying to figure out how to do that by reading the rdoc source, but I didn't get all that far. I think the UI should be like the API section of the online pickaxe. The 4-frame version is just overwhelmingly complex. Ben From ruby-talk at whytheluckystiff.net Mon Feb 28 22:06:08 2005 From: ruby-talk at whytheluckystiff.net (why the lucky stiff) Date: Mon Feb 28 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] Tag! In-Reply-To: <6a65064605022510312dc5a303@mail.gmail.com> References: <421F5FF4.6040309@infofiend.com> <6a65064605022510312dc5a303@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4223DC20.1090108@whytheluckystiff.net> Michel Martens wrote: >On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:27:16 -0500, Ben Giddings wrote: > > >>We're it. >> >>Do you guys think we should make the list and archives non-public for the moment? >> >> > >Non public. I?m very shy when designing. > >Michel > > The list archives are still publicly available. Curt, do you have access to turn this off? _why From curt at hibbs.com Mon Feb 28 22:28:18 2005 From: curt at hibbs.com (Curt Hibbs) Date: Mon Feb 28 22:24:20 2005 Subject: [Vit-core] Tag! In-Reply-To: <4223DC20.1090108@whytheluckystiff.net> Message-ID: why the lucky stiff wrote: > > Michel Martens wrote: > > >On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:27:16 -0500, Ben Giddings > wrote: > > > > > >>We're it. > >> > >>Do you guys think we should make the list and archives > non-public for the moment? > >> > >> > > > >Non public. I?m very shy when designing. > > > >Michel > > > > > The list archives are still publicly available. Curt, do you have > access to turn this off? > It was supposed to be private -- I checked the "private" radio button when I set it up. Damn computers! :-( Anyway, I'll go fix it. Curt