From rochkind at jhu.edu  Tue Oct  2 17:13:03 2012
From: rochkind at jhu.edu (Jonathan Rochkind)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:13:03 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
Message-ID: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>

So, since the dawn of Umlaut, it's had a feature where it offers a short 
"permalink" for a given URL.

This is generally useful, and I think my librarians like it -- an actual 
OpenURL is way too long to conveniently copy and paste into email, or 
into a link in your own web page.

The problem is that the table used to keep track of info to resolve 
permalinks ends up growing without bound.

Mine is currently at billions of rows, and 7G of disk space.

In Umlaut 3, I've added tracking to the table of when a permalink was 
last accessed, as well as when it was created, so you could at least 
optionally choose to clear out permalinks that haven't been resolved in 
a year or something.  Although of course that makes them rather less 
'perma'.

But this is still kind of pain.

What do people think about an option (or a total feature replacement?) 
to use the tinyurl service for these permalinks instead?  tinyurl has a 
suitable API so Umlaut could create tinyurls behind the scenes for a 
given url, and display those.  This would of course require some time to 
go out to the tinyurl service to fetch it (if this is non-neglible time, 
I could try to do something clever with threads).  And if the tinyurl 
service goes down or disappears, they're gone. And you're exposing your 
users to tracking by tinyurl.

From rossfsinger at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:06:08 2012
From: rossfsinger at gmail.com (Ross Singer)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:06:08 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>

Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically. After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if they ever see it again ;)

-Ross. 

On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind at jhu.edu> wrote:

> So, since the dawn of Umlaut, it's had a feature where it offers a short "permalink" for a given URL.
> 
> This is generally useful, and I think my librarians like it -- an actual OpenURL is way too long to conveniently copy and paste into email, or into a link in your own web page.
> 
> The problem is that the table used to keep track of info to resolve permalinks ends up growing without bound.
> 
> Mine is currently at billions of rows, and 7G of disk space.
> 
> In Umlaut 3, I've added tracking to the table of when a permalink was last accessed, as well as when it was created, so you could at least optionally choose to clear out permalinks that haven't been resolved in a year or something.  Although of course that makes them rather less 'perma'.
> 
> But this is still kind of pain.
> 
> What do people think about an option (or a total feature replacement?) to use the tinyurl service for these permalinks instead?  tinyurl has a suitable API so Umlaut could create tinyurls behind the scenes for a given url, and display those.  This would of course require some time to go out to the tinyurl service to fetch it (if this is non-neglible time, I could try to do something clever with threads).  And if the tinyurl service goes down or disappears, they're gone. And you're exposing your users to tracking by tinyurl.
> _______________________________________________
> Umlaut-general mailing list
> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general

From rochkind at jhu.edu  Tue Oct  2 19:12:17 2012
From: rochkind at jhu.edu (Jonathan Rochkind)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:12:17 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506B3C91.8060601@jhu.edu>

Hmm, that's true too, like you'd have to click "view permalink", and it 
would generate it then. Hadn't thought of that.

Any opinions on that on-demand method, vs tinyurl, vs current 
implementation, vs no permalinks at all?  (the tinyurl method is easier 
to implement than the on-demand method, but the on-demand method is 
do-able too. One could theoretically combine them into on-demand tinyurl 
too. :) )

On 10/2/2012 3:06 PM, Ross Singer wrote:
> Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically. After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if they ever see it again ;)
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind at jhu.edu> wrote:
>
>> So, since the dawn of Umlaut, it's had a feature where it offers a short "permalink" for a given URL.
>>
>> This is generally useful, and I think my librarians like it -- an actual OpenURL is way too long to conveniently copy and paste into email, or into a link in your own web page.
>>
>> The problem is that the table used to keep track of info to resolve permalinks ends up growing without bound.
>>
>> Mine is currently at billions of rows, and 7G of disk space.
>>
>> In Umlaut 3, I've added tracking to the table of when a permalink was last accessed, as well as when it was created, so you could at least optionally choose to clear out permalinks that haven't been resolved in a year or something.  Although of course that makes them rather less 'perma'.
>>
>> But this is still kind of pain.
>>
>> What do people think about an option (or a total feature replacement?) to use the tinyurl service for these permalinks instead?  tinyurl has a suitable API so Umlaut could create tinyurls behind the scenes for a given url, and display those.  This would of course require some time to go out to the tinyurl service to fetch it (if this is non-neglible time, I could try to do something clever with threads).  And if the tinyurl service goes down or disappears, they're gone. And you're exposing your users to tracking by tinyurl.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
> _______________________________________________
> Umlaut-general mailing list
> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>

From std5 at nyu.edu  Tue Oct  2 19:19:39 2012
From: std5 at nyu.edu (Scot Dalton)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:19:39 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <506B3C91.8060601@jhu.edu>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
	<506B3C91.8060601@jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <B506554B-EAB1-49B8-A6B0-98BD9CBB9D99@nyu.edu>

TinyURL makes me a little nervous.  I know folks here really like the permalink feature and the thought that it could go away would be cause for concern.  I like the on demand option.

Also looks like there are a few gems that may help:
https://rubygems.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=shortener

Thanks,
Scot


On Oct 2, 2012, at Oct 2, 3:12 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:

> Hmm, that's true too, like you'd have to click "view permalink", and it would generate it then. Hadn't thought of that.
> 
> Any opinions on that on-demand method, vs tinyurl, vs current implementation, vs no permalinks at all?  (the tinyurl method is easier to implement than the on-demand method, but the on-demand method is do-able too. One could theoretically combine them into on-demand tinyurl too. :) )
> 
> On 10/2/2012 3:06 PM, Ross Singer wrote:
>> Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically. After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if they ever see it again ;)
>> 
>> -Ross.
>> 
>> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind at jhu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> So, since the dawn of Umlaut, it's had a feature where it offers a short "permalink" for a given URL.
>>> 
>>> This is generally useful, and I think my librarians like it -- an actual OpenURL is way too long to conveniently copy and paste into email, or into a link in your own web page.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that the table used to keep track of info to resolve permalinks ends up growing without bound.
>>> 
>>> Mine is currently at billions of rows, and 7G of disk space.
>>> 
>>> In Umlaut 3, I've added tracking to the table of when a permalink was last accessed, as well as when it was created, so you could at least optionally choose to clear out permalinks that haven't been resolved in a year or something.  Although of course that makes them rather less 'perma'.
>>> 
>>> But this is still kind of pain.
>>> 
>>> What do people think about an option (or a total feature replacement?) to use the tinyurl service for these permalinks instead?  tinyurl has a suitable API so Umlaut could create tinyurls behind the scenes for a given url, and display those.  This would of course require some time to go out to the tinyurl service to fetch it (if this is non-neglible time, I could try to do something clever with threads).  And if the tinyurl service goes down or disappears, they're gone. And you're exposing your users to tracking by tinyurl.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>> _______________________________________________
>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Umlaut-general mailing list
> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general


--
Scot Dalton
Phone:  (212) 998-2674
Web Services
Division of Libraries
New York University


From rochkind at jhu.edu  Tue Oct  2 19:41:16 2012
From: rochkind at jhu.edu (Jonathan Rochkind)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:41:16 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <B506554B-EAB1-49B8-A6B0-98BD9CBB9D99@nyu.edu>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
	<506B3C91.8060601@jhu.edu>
	<B506554B-EAB1-49B8-A6B0-98BD9CBB9D99@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <506B435C.5020304@jhu.edu>

I don't think any of those gems will do anything useful for us here. 
But, okay, on-demand option maybe.

Should that be an option, or default?  The on-demand option won't work 
well without JS, although it can be made to work not-very-well without JS.

On 10/2/2012 3:19 PM, Scot Dalton wrote:
> TinyURL makes me a little nervous.  I know folks here really like the permalink feature and the thought that it could go away would be cause for concern.  I like the on demand option.
>
> Also looks like there are a few gems that may help:
> https://rubygems.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=shortener
>
> Thanks,
> Scot
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at Oct 2, 3:12 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>
>> Hmm, that's true too, like you'd have to click "view permalink", and it would generate it then. Hadn't thought of that.
>>
>> Any opinions on that on-demand method, vs tinyurl, vs current implementation, vs no permalinks at all?  (the tinyurl method is easier to implement than the on-demand method, but the on-demand method is do-able too. One could theoretically combine them into on-demand tinyurl too. :) )
>>
>> On 10/2/2012 3:06 PM, Ross Singer wrote:
>>> Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically. After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if they ever see it again ;)
>>>
>>> -Ross.
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind at jhu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, since the dawn of Umlaut, it's had a feature where it offers a short "permalink" for a given URL.
>>>>
>>>> This is generally useful, and I think my librarians like it -- an actual OpenURL is way too long to conveniently copy and paste into email, or into a link in your own web page.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that the table used to keep track of info to resolve permalinks ends up growing without bound.
>>>>
>>>> Mine is currently at billions of rows, and 7G of disk space.
>>>>
>>>> In Umlaut 3, I've added tracking to the table of when a permalink was last accessed, as well as when it was created, so you could at least optionally choose to clear out permalinks that haven't been resolved in a year or something.  Although of course that makes them rather less 'perma'.
>>>>
>>>> But this is still kind of pain.
>>>>
>>>> What do people think about an option (or a total feature replacement?) to use the tinyurl service for these permalinks instead?  tinyurl has a suitable API so Umlaut could create tinyurls behind the scenes for a given url, and display those.  This would of course require some time to go out to the tinyurl service to fetch it (if this is non-neglible time, I could try to do something clever with threads).  And if the tinyurl service goes down or disappears, they're gone. And you're exposing your users to tracking by tinyurl.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>>>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Umlaut-general mailing list
>> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>
>
> --
> Scot Dalton
> Phone:  (212) 998-2674
> Web Services
> Division of Libraries
> New York University
>
> _______________________________________________
> Umlaut-general mailing list
> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general
>

From m.e.phillips at durham.ac.uk  Wed Oct  3 08:41:21 2012
From: m.e.phillips at durham.ac.uk (PHILLIPS M.E.)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 08:41:21 +0000
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE5A87935C81284782298B0D297D67849DB817@CISCMRMBS02.mds.ad.dur.ac.uk>

I like the on-demand idea.  If the permalinks are handled by the server rather than another service, you can guarantee they will be permanent, but you can also monitor take-up more easily and see how they are being used.

-- 
Matthew Phillips
Electronic Systems Librarian, Durham University
Durham University Library, Stockton Road, Durham, DH1 3LY
+44 (0)191 334 2941

> -----Original Message-----
> From: umlaut-general-bounces at rubyforge.org [mailto:umlaut-general-
> bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer
> Sent: 02 October 2012 20:06
> To: umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> Cc: umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> Subject: Re: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
> 
> Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically.
> After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if
> they ever see it again ;)
> 
> -Ross.


From rochkind at jhu.edu  Wed Oct  3 13:21:25 2012
From: rochkind at jhu.edu (Jonathan Rochkind)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:21:25 +0000
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <DE5A87935C81284782298B0D297D67849DB817@CISCMRMBS02.mds.ad.dur.ac.uk>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>,
	<DE5A87935C81284782298B0D297D67849DB817@CISCMRMBS02.mds.ad.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <665DBC51D0250A47B4F9306CE71E5FB776C205BE@JHEMTEBEX1.win.ad.jhu.edu>

Well, the trick is you _can't_ really guarantee the permalinks will be perma, when you wind up with 60 billion of them and a 30GB table, and your server can't handle it. Which is the situation I've found myself in (longest continual Umlaut deployer at present, me). 

But yeah, generating them on demand is meant to deal with that, will generate much fewer. Good idea rsinger. Sounds like that's a popular idea. 

I anticipate the main implementation being javascript -- where the permalink is currently deployed, there will instead be a prompt of some kind "See permalink" -- when you click it, Javascript will do an AJAX thing back to the server, which will generate a permalink and save it in the db, and replace the "See permalink" prompt with the permalink. 

If the browser doesn't have JS though -- there will be a non-JS degredation, but it'll be an entire page reload. Which probably isn't that bad actually. 

Any ideas on what the prompt should say? Not "Show permalink", nobody knows what that means. "Show Short URL"? Any other ideas?
________________________________________
From: umlaut-general-bounces at rubyforge.org [umlaut-general-bounces at rubyforge.org] on behalf of PHILLIPS M.E. [m.e.phillips at durham.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 4:41 AM
To: 'umlaut-general at rubyforge.org'
Subject: Re: [Umlaut-general] permalinks

I like the on-demand idea.  If the permalinks are handled by the server rather than another service, you can guarantee they will be permanent, but you can also monitor take-up more easily and see how they are being used.

--
Matthew Phillips
Electronic Systems Librarian, Durham University
Durham University Library, Stockton Road, Durham, DH1 3LY
+44 (0)191 334 2941

> -----Original Message-----
> From: umlaut-general-bounces at rubyforge.org [mailto:umlaut-general-
> bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer
> Sent: 02 October 2012 20:06
> To: umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> Cc: umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> Subject: Re: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
>
> Another option would be to generate them on demand, vs automatically.
> After all, for the vast majority of page views, the user couldn't care less if
> they ever see it again ;)
>
> -Ross.

_______________________________________________
Umlaut-general mailing list
Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general

From std5 at nyu.edu  Wed Oct  3 14:31:05 2012
From: std5 at nyu.edu (Scot Dalton)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:31:05 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <665DBC51D0250A47B4F9306CE71E5FB776C205BE@JHEMTEBEX1.win.ad.jhu.edu>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>,
	<DE5A87935C81284782298B0D297D67849DB817@CISCMRMBS02.mds.ad.dur.ac.uk>
	<665DBC51D0250A47B4F9306CE71E5FB776C205BE@JHEMTEBEX1.win.ad.jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <7E4E282A-34D6-457F-A17C-06DC0A373737@nyu.edu>


On Oct 3, 2012, at Oct 3, 9:21 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:

> Any ideas on what the prompt should say? Not "Show permalink", nobody knows what that means. "Show Short URL"? Any other ideas?


Maybe just a link icon with alternative text of "Share".

--
Scot Dalton
Phone:  (212) 998-2674
Web Services
Division of Libraries
New York University


From rossfsinger at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 14:34:57 2012
From: rossfsinger at gmail.com (Ross Singer)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:34:57 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] permalinks
In-Reply-To: <7E4E282A-34D6-457F-A17C-06DC0A373737@nyu.edu>
References: <506B209F.80302@jhu.edu>
	<0F13C4E5-AC30-497F-A5A7-99F16ED0F39B@gmail.com>,
	<DE5A87935C81284782298B0D297D67849DB817@CISCMRMBS02.mds.ad.dur.ac.uk>
	<665DBC51D0250A47B4F9306CE71E5FB776C205BE@JHEMTEBEX1.win.ad.jhu.edu>
	<7E4E282A-34D6-457F-A17C-06DC0A373737@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <3D0E2236-BC11-4F0E-8C88-550B3EB0223B@gmail.com>


On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:31 AM, Scot Dalton <std5 at nyu.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Oct 3, 2012, at Oct 3, 9:21 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
> 
>> Any ideas on what the prompt should say? Not "Show permalink", nobody knows what that means. "Show Short URL"? Any other ideas?
> 
> 
> Maybe just a link icon with alternative text of "Share".

+1

I'm pretty sure bootstrap has something like this in its bag of tricks, perfect for your refactoring ;)

-Ross.
> 
> --
> Scot Dalton
> Phone:  (212) 998-2674
> Web Services
> Division of Libraries
> New York University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Umlaut-general mailing list
> Umlaut-general at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/umlaut-general


From std5 at nyu.edu  Wed Oct 10 19:38:16 2012
From: std5 at nyu.edu (Scot Dalton)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:38:16 -0400
Subject: [Umlaut-general] SFX 3
Message-ID: <7349EDBA-0C8D-4FCB-9387-790C4348A980@nyu.edu>

Hi all,

Is anyone still using SFX 3?  I'm doing an Umlaut refactor and would like to cut out the stuff related to SFX 3 if possible.

Thanks,
Scot

--
Scot Dalton
Phone:  (212) 998-2674
Web Services
Division of Libraries
New York University