From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 06:48:04 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 04:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] RubyInline: Path with spaces,
	cannot 	reproduce
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0907271707m30472d23gced5e4255e0427cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907251201j48053eb1rb99c9944f1e8dcfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570907271657v2a803282w5e47844bee63d852@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0907271707m30472d23gced5e4255e0427cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908010348o2c3abe9vab90112af8222cb1@mail.gmail.com>

> VERY WEIRD.

I totally agree.  After I sent this email my first thought was "why in
the world is it working here and not there?" And I'm still not sure.


> Can you try this GitHub repository?
>
> http://github.com/seattlerb/rubyinline

Yeah that was the repository I used.
> What is the content/format of gcc stub script?
>
> Mine is this:
>
> http://github.com/luislavena/binfiles/blob/master/gcc.bat

C:\dev\ruby\old\which_ruby>cat c:\ruby\bin\gcc.bat
@ECHO OFF
SETLOCAL
SET DEVKIT=%~dp0..\devkit
SET PATH=%DEVKIT%\gcc\3.4.5\bin;%DEVKIT%\msys\1.0.11\bin
bash.exe  --login -i -c "gcc %*"




> Or adding the full path:
>
> http://github.com/luislavena/binfiles/blob/master/full-mingw.bat

Here's my equiv.


set PATH=c:\installs\build_env\mingw\bin;c:\installs\build_env\msys\bin;c:\installs\build_env\msys\usr\local\bin;%PATH%



> Also, would you mind tell me the values of HOME, APPDATA and HOMEDRIVE HOMEPATH?


HOME=C:\Documents and Settings\Default
HOMEDRIVE=C:
HOMEPATH=\Documents and Settings\Default
APPDATA=C:\Documents and Settings\Default\Application Data

Thanks for your help with this.
=r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 07:15:50 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 05:15:50 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] SLJL
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0907282126paba2bceh7fc19735b9fece95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570907272133o77ed9b58ke0e7fffeb2522cdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0907282126paba2bceh7fc19735b9fece95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908010415i6b61c1e1v7cda9f959c6fe810@mail.gmail.com>

>> Question.
>> If a user cross compiles using GCC 4.x on linux, does their code
>> compile to windows code using SLJL or Dwarf-2 unwinding? ?Does it
>> matter?
>
> The question is someone manage to cross-compile GCC 4.x to target
> mingw32, it will be SLJL or Dwarf-2, correct?

Yeah that's right.

> Well, the answer will be which parameters they use to cross compile it.

Ok.


> AFAIK all the cross-compiling targets for GCC I saw are using default SLJL.
>
> But that only is GCC 4, mingw32 packages and ports for many solutions,
> including SUSE are using GCC 3.4.5

which are forced to SJLJ is that right?


> Is my understanding that will only affect if exceptions are thrown
> across shared library (dll) boundaries.

Those are pretty rare aren't they?

So the question "if I build a version using mingw's recent 4.4.0
release [dwarf-2]" will it work with cross-compiled binaries that gem
developers provide, and I think the answer is yes, because we don't
care all that much about exceptions crossing dll boundaries.  I guess?

Any thoughts on this one?

=r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 07:34:04 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 05:34:04 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] eventmachine gem can not work with OCI
	1.9.1p129
In-Reply-To: <85b91c640907282301u319aa35cv926d8a656eea3118@mail.gmail.com>
References: <85b91c640907282301u319aa35cv926d8a656eea3118@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908010434o52bb3fc2ga822a499da70df98@mail.gmail.com>

2009/7/29 phoenix <wujunchen at gmail.com>:
> I can install eventmachine in? OCI 1.9.1p129 with --platform=mswin32,but
> eventmachine can not work in this way.
> And if install it not use --platform=mswin32,it can not be installed.

Interesting.  I'll email the EM guys about it.

I suppose in the near future we can hope for the devkit gem to be able
to install openssl locally if desired, so it can compile locally :)
?



C:\dev\ruby>gem install eventmachine
Building native extensions.  This could take a while...
ERROR:  Error installing eventmachine:
        ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
...
g++ -I. -IC:/Ruby/include/ruby-1.9.1/i386-mingw32
-I/C/Ruby/include/ruby-1.9.1/ruby/backward
-I/C/Ruby/include/ruby-1.9.1 -I. -DBUILD_FOR_RUBY
-DHAVE_RB_THREAD_BLOCKING_REGION -DHAVE_TBR -DOS_WIN32
-DHAVE_WINDOWS_H -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -DWITH_SSL    -O2 -g -Wall
-Wno-parentheses       -o binder.o -c binder.cpp
In file included from binder.cpp:20:
project.h:26: warning: ignoring #pragma warning
In file included from binder.cpp:20:
project.h:92:25: openssl/ssl.h: No such file or directory

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 09:50:56 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 07:50:56 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] File.executable?(directory) == true?
Message-ID: <e880bd570908010650k127009c3qfb19387459b19538@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed this behavior in ruby on windows:
C:\dev\ruby>mkdir go

C:\dev\ruby>ruby -e 'puts File.executable?("go")'
true

Is this worthy of complaint, does anyone think? :)

=r

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 12:44:39 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:44:39 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] File.executable?(directory) == true?
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908010650k127009c3qfb19387459b19538@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908010650k127009c3qfb19387459b19538@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908010944j58f2570lbe48ab2aa0c96684@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed this behavior in ruby on windows:
> C:\dev\ruby>mkdir go
>
> C:\dev\ruby>ruby -e 'puts File.executable?("go")'
> true
>
> Is this worthy of complaint, does anyone think? :)
>

http://groups.google.com/group/rubyspec/browse_thread/thread/2e2b21b73aca5fcc#

Most of the File methods are flawed on Windows, not because attributes
but also the lack of ACL knowledge.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 19:49:57 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:49:57 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] RubyInline: Path with spaces,
	cannot 	reproduce
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908010348o2c3abe9vab90112af8222cb1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907251201j48053eb1rb99c9944f1e8dcfa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570907271657v2a803282w5e47844bee63d852@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0907271707m30472d23gced5e4255e0427cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908010348o2c3abe9vab90112af8222cb1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908011649t39c33775mbcecc69e0e0cfc89@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> C:\dev\ruby\old\which_ruby>cat c:\ruby\bin\gcc.bat
> @ECHO OFF
> SETLOCAL
> SET DEVKIT=%~dp0..\devkit
> SET PATH=%DEVKIT%\gcc\3.4.5\bin;%DEVKIT%\msys\1.0.11\bin
> bash.exe ?--login -i -c "gcc %*"
>

Well, that explains things a bit.

You're calling GCC from inside bash, which is going to mess all the
PATH and quotes around the command itself.

I found that later than published the devkit, going to work on a patch
or new version, but was focusing more on getting the recipes for the
Gem.

Please change your gcc.bat to only load bin of MinGW and call gcc.exe
with %*, like my sample script.

Cheating every tool under the sun sometimes doesn't work.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 22:50:39 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 23:50:39 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] eventmachine gem can not work with OCI
	1.9.1p129
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908010434o52bb3fc2ga822a499da70df98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <85b91c640907282301u319aa35cv926d8a656eea3118@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908010434o52bb3fc2ga822a499da70df98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908011950x7ded33amddda7affa441f041@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/7/29 phoenix <wujunchen at gmail.com>:
>> I can install eventmachine in? OCI 1.9.1p129 with --platform=mswin32,but
>> eventmachine can not work in this way.
>> And if install it not use --platform=mswin32,it can not be installed.
>
> Interesting. ?I'll email the EM guys about it.
>

EventMachine requires OpenSSL? That bumps a bit the complexity of
building the gem...

I would recommend EM team build OpenSSL "statically" so it doesn't
conflict and can be shipped without DLLs.

> I suppose in the near future we can hope for the devkit gem to be able
> to install openssl locally if desired, so it can compile locally :)
> ?

No. OpenSSL requires a lot of Perl trickery. Check proper-openssl
branch of the repository to see how complicated is get OpenSSL to
build.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 23:02:22 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:02:22 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] SLJL
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908010415i6b61c1e1v7cda9f959c6fe810@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570907272133o77ed9b58ke0e7fffeb2522cdc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0907282126paba2bceh7fc19735b9fece95@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908010415i6b61c1e1v7cda9f959c6fe810@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908012002j2e86166cn11bc292022faa47b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> AFAIK all the cross-compiling targets for GCC I saw are using default SLJL.
>>
>> But that only is GCC 4, mingw32 packages and ports for many solutions,
>> including SUSE are using GCC 3.4.5
>
> which are forced to SJLJ is that right?
>

Yes. Default mode is sjlj.

>> Is my understanding that will only affect if exceptions are thrown
>> across shared library (dll) boundaries.
>
> Those are pretty rare aren't they?
>

Yes, but for example, Dwarf-2 cannot be used to catch callbacks from
Windows system libraries, which is going to be a real pain for tools
that interact with Win32API.

I believe more can be read here:

http://www.tdragon.net/recentgcc/

> So the question "if I build a version using mingw's recent 4.4.0
> release [dwarf-2]" will it work with cross-compiled binaries that gem
> developers provide, and I think the answer is yes, because we don't
> care all that much about exceptions crossing dll boundaries. ?I guess?

In theory, but we already have a lot in relation to MSVCRT, VC8/9 and
things not working to throw in the mix now exception throwing (no pun
intended).

> Any thoughts on this one?
>

Call me oldie, but going to play safe and stick to SJLJ for a while.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:20:57 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:20:57 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

After reading some of the comments in the recent Antonio Canganio post:

http://antoniocangiano.com/2009/08/03/performance-of-ironruby-ruby-on-windows/

Raised me the concern of my lack of communication skills.

I sent a long reply with all the links of published and advertised
progress, but seems the post got moderated. Until that...

Should I change something? I mean, I'm not a communication expert, but
seems that I'm not doing it right to communicate what's happening with
the project or the amazing progress we did.

I mean, I'm even getting (and paying) for a software certificate to
sign the installers so they become a trustful resource. Started with
the website contest, posted to RubyForge news section, ruby-talk and
written tutorial articles, even after that, still not enough?

Please, be open and sincere about it, I'm open to comments or
suggestions to change what I'm doing wrong.

Thank you in advance guys.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From matt at smajn.net  Mon Aug  3 12:50:18 2009
From: matt at smajn.net (Matt H)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:50:18 -0700
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d714fce0908030950v25eceac2p70be40c34b3a96cf@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:

> Should I change something? I mean, I'm not a communication expert, but
> seems that I'm not doing it right to communicate what's happening with
> the project or the amazing progress we did.

I think there's two main issues.

1) No links from ruby-lang.org to the rubyinstaller
2) No content on rubyinstaller.org at all.

I believe that if these two issues were resolved it would make a great
deal of progress towards getting the word out.


-- 
Find me - http://www.smajn.net/social

From hramrach at centrum.cz  Mon Aug  3 13:44:41 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:44:41 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <2d714fce0908030950v25eceac2p70be40c34b3a96cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d714fce0908030950v25eceac2p70be40c34b3a96cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908031044x392c90fld8c8f6b842d46fd0@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Matt H <matt at smajn.net>:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Should I change something? I mean, I'm not a communication expert, but
>> seems that I'm not doing it right to communicate what's happening with
>> the project or the amazing progress we did.
>
> I think there's two main issues.
>
> 1) No links from ruby-lang.org to the rubyinstaller
> 2) No content on rubyinstaller.org at all.
>
> I believe that if these two issues were resolved it would make a great
> deal of progress towards getting the word out.
>

Also some announcements of progress on ruby-talk would raise the
awareness of non-involved people about this project, what it is doing,
and how far it got already. There are people asking about windows
installers from time to time.

The lack of any official release makes it look like there is nothing
going on. People tend to overlook projects that do not deliver
immediate and continuous noise.

It is true that the new installer is not a drop-in replacement for the
old all-in-one ruby one click installer. However, people using various
subsets of the original one click installer functionality might be
able to test and use an installer with fewer libraries but newer ruby.

Thanks

Michal

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 14:11:40 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:11:40 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <2d714fce0908030950v25eceac2p70be40c34b3a96cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d714fce0908030950v25eceac2p70be40c34b3a96cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031111v28ef7300sd7445acd98c7b9c9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Matt H<matt at smajn.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Should I change something? I mean, I'm not a communication expert, but
>> seems that I'm not doing it right to communicate what's happening with
>> the project or the amazing progress we did.
>
> I think there's two main issues.
>
> 1) No links from ruby-lang.org to the rubyinstaller

Thank you.

> 2) No content on rubyinstaller.org at all.
>

Been working on that with the guys here and the wiki at GitHub.

Once the website is ready the content is going to be migrated there.

> I believe that if these two issues were resolved it would make a great
> deal of progress towards getting the word out.
>

I believe the same, thank you.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 14:22:01 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:22:01 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>

> Please, be open and sincere about it, I'm open to comments or
> suggestions to change what I'm doing wrong.

I'd suggest "alpha releases" on the
http://rubyforge.org/projects/rubyinstaller/ web site--otherwise
nobody knows where to look, and it's as if the new mingw releases
don't exist.
=r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 14:54:18 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:54:18 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908031154s6638aa80h88ff43b12ea0b2c8@mail.gmail.com>

> After reading some of the comments in the recent Antonio Canganio post:
>
> http://antoniocangiano.com/2009/08/03/performance-of-ironruby-ruby-on-windows/
>
> Raised me the concern of my lack of communication skills.

Here's his response:
http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-benchmark-suite/browse_thread/thread/6816ccd721d0670b
[last entry].
-r

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 15:53:26 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:53:26 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908031240p695a2076sa62d224dc55fe206@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fbc5c9680908031240p695a2076sa62d224dc55fe206@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031253w3f566299u1125240d567938ce@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
> I agree with Roger.? In fact, I tried to add an experimental section to the
> Rubyforge wiki myself at
> http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstaller (the target of
> the ruby-lang downloads 'one-click installer' link).? My edit failed because
> of the external link and security settings on the wiki.
>

Indeed the wiki is completely unfriendly. Gordon Thiesfeld did some
content editing but when I try do other adjustments was kicking me out
too.

> If there was better info on that page, I would have found your work much
> sooner.

If I could have added it, would have done it sooner :P

> (Excellent work by the way!)
>

Thanks.

> There is some info under bleeding edge development but that deals with
> building Ruby yourself.? There is nothing on the page that will get a user
> to http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads.
>

I have to agree.

So the best thing to do is next preview release is put on RubyForge
and put the correct notice and warn labels ;-)

That is going to help a bit more until the website is done and the
"Coming soon" can go away ;-)

Thank you guys.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:11:16 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:11:16 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908031311t386c6b14la076459df1d8e0c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Please, be open and sincere about it, I'm open to comments or
>> suggestions to change what I'm doing wrong.
>
> I'd suggest "alpha releases" on the
> http://rubyforge.org/projects/rubyinstaller/ web site--otherwise
> nobody knows where to look, and it's as if the new mingw releases
> don't exist.
> =r

The news section is good, but it's buried at the lower left hand side
of the page.  The rubyforge page also lists the rubyforge wiki as the
project's homepage, which hasn't been updated in a while.  Do you
think this should be switched to the github wiki until
rubyinstaller.org is ready?  I can do that, if you're ok with it,
Luis.  I've added links in the github wiki to the rubyinstaller
downloads page and the rubyforge bug tracker.

Amy Hoy has some good articles on this subject.  Here's one[1] in
particular that's worth a look.

[1]http://slash7.com/articles/2007/2/26/pimpin-products-aint-easy

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:26:16 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:26:16 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908031311t386c6b14la076459df1d8e0c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908031311t386c6b14la076459df1d8e0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031326p130da38fpbc9c4b05506b6636@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Please, be open and sincere about it, I'm open to comments or
>>> suggestions to change what I'm doing wrong.
>>
>> I'd suggest "alpha releases" on the
>> http://rubyforge.org/projects/rubyinstaller/ web site--otherwise
>> nobody knows where to look, and it's as if the new mingw releases
>> don't exist.
>> =r
>
> The news section is good, but it's buried at the lower left hand side
> of the page. ?The rubyforge page also lists the rubyforge wiki as the
> project's homepage, which hasn't been updated in a while. ?Do you
> think this should be switched to the github wiki until
> rubyinstaller.org is ready? ?I can do that, if you're ok with it,
> Luis.

Yes! Please do.

I would put a huge box on top of the current wiki pointing to the GitHub one.

> I've added links in the github wiki to the rubyinstaller
> downloads page and the rubyforge bug tracker.

Thank you.

Definitely next preview release is going to be hosted and announced at
RubyForge.

> Amy Hoy has some good articles on this subject. ?Here's one[1] in
> particular that's worth a look.
>
> [1]http://slash7.com/articles/2007/2/26/pimpin-products-aint-easy

Thank you for the link!

I remember saw that, but couldn't find it...

Mea culpa:

"""
Don?t? use blog posts as the only way to find and download the product.

Puh-leeze for the love of all that is good and usable do not do this.
The last thing I need to do when I want something is search your blog
to try and figure out which blog post is the most recent version. I
speak for myself, but I know I?m not alone in this one. This very
mistake is what prompted me to write this thing.
"""

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:37:13 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:37:13 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
> One thing I'd like to see happen very quickly is to ask Pavel to hack up a
> cut down version of
>
> http://www.matcheck.cz/rubyinstaller/rubyinstaller_homepage.html
>
> in which the only working links are for (a) the download "red box" graphic,
> and (b) the "Download" text at the top of the page....both should link to
> http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/
>

Pavel is on the move and should be getting back on track this week (I hope).

I'll get in touch with him.

I can ask RubyForge admins to switch the URL of rubyforge.org to point
to GitHub. will check with them.

> This will act as a simple static facade until the real web site is up and
> working.? We can even hard code in some additional placeholder content if
> needed, but the point is I strongly believe we need to get a basic web site
> up.
>

Also, wrote a draft giving some bucks for a Radiant expert to
translate those to our website. I lack the Radiant knowledge (and the
time) to do it myself.

> Pavel's mockup homepage looks GREAT and is a good start....let's use as much
> of it as make sense to jump start things.
>
> Even if it's just the part from the blue band up to the top, it's *much*
> better than what we've got now :)
>

Oh, you mean the "Coming soon"... took me a lot to put that file online! ;-)

What if we just put a simple page with the info and concentrate the
links until the site is done? I can get the Radiant and the DB put in
place tonight.

> More to come...
>

Awesome!

--
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:44:43 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:44:43 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031326p130da38fpbc9c4b05506b6636@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908031311t386c6b14la076459df1d8e0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031326p130da38fpbc9c4b05506b6636@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908031344p3642eb97g5310c2b4a0cdd60f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The news section is good, but it's buried at the lower left hand side
>> of the page. ?The rubyforge page also lists the rubyforge wiki as the
>> project's homepage, which hasn't been updated in a while. ?Do you
>> think this should be switched to the github wiki until
>> rubyinstaller.org is ready? ?I can do that, if you're ok with it,
>> Luis.
>
> Yes! Please do.

Oops!  I lied.  I have to be a project admin to update the project homepage.

>
> I would put a huge box on top of the current wiki pointing to the GitHub one.
>

This I believe I can do something about.

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:59:20 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:59:20 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908031240p695a2076sa62d224dc55fe206@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908031240p695a2076sa62d224dc55fe206@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908031359g490a5189lc0fabe92a7e835cc@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
> I agree with Roger.? In fact, I tried to add an experimental section to the
> Rubyforge wiki myself at
> http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstaller (the target of
> the ruby-lang downloads 'one-click installer' link).? My edit failed because
> of the external link and security settings on the wiki.
>
> If there was better info on that page, I would have found your work much
> sooner.
> (Excellent work by the way!)

I know the super secret method of adding external links.  I've updated
the "How to Add an External Link" section of the wiki with my email
address, should anyone want to know.

Thanks,

Gordon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:01:24 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:01:24 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908031344p3642eb97g5310c2b4a0cdd60f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908031311t386c6b14la076459df1d8e0c5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908031326p130da38fpbc9c4b05506b6636@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908031344p3642eb97g5310c2b4a0cdd60f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031401l73debb6akc77cf823f5b091f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The news section is good, but it's buried at the lower left hand side
>>> of the page. ?The rubyforge page also lists the rubyforge wiki as the
>>> project's homepage, which hasn't been updated in a while. ?Do you
>>> think this should be switched to the github wiki until
>>> rubyinstaller.org is ready? ?I can do that, if you're ok with it,
>>> Luis.
>>
>> Yes! Please do.
>
> Oops! ?I lied. ?I have to be a project admin to update the project homepage.

Go figure, I had my magic wand at hand and just made you Admin...

>> I would put a huge box on top of the current wiki pointing to the GitHub one.
>>
>
> This I believe I can do something about.

Thank you :-)
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:24:58 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:24:58 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908031424x5834a9eaqda9387f3a8f95416@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can ask RubyForge admins to switch the URL of rubyforge.org to point
> to GitHub. will check with them.
>

I can do this (now that I'm an admin ;-) ), if you think it's best.
My vote would be to wait until we have rubyinstaller.org up and
redirect it there, but I'll be happy to point it to the github wiki,
if so desired.

Thanks,

Gordon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:31:09 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:31:09 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908031424x5834a9eaqda9387f3a8f95416@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908031424x5834a9eaqda9387f3a8f95416@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031431j2c1ac038v8351ede6e8a5455c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can ask RubyForge admins to switch the URL of rubyforge.org to point
>> to GitHub. will check with them.
>>
>
> I can do this (now that I'm an admin ;-) ), if you think it's best.
> My vote would be to wait until we have rubyinstaller.org up and
> redirect it there, but I'll be happy to point it to the github wiki,
> if so desired.
>

Let's keep as is and add the pointer to the old wiki pointing to the new one.

> Thanks,

Thanks to you.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:03:29 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:03:29 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Guys,

I was working over the weekend on getting updated installers which
solved several issues reported at RubyForge and GitHub issues:

http://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/blob/master/History.txt

As the TODO list stands today:

http://gist.github.com/151832

I have one last thing to add: Signed installers.

I'm getting a software certificate to authenticate our installers.
Should be the upcoming days.

Now, we need to determine the steps for the documentation.

>From the last things that we discussed, Gordon's work is going to
provide a suitable CHM file for us to rejoice.

We still want RI docs? Perhaps we can add some note to the installer?

I'm with the idea of promoting it, but if RI is a must, want to hear
what you guys think (last time, I promise).

Thank you and keep you on the loop!

:-D
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 10:40:21 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:40:21 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
 properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031431j2c1ac038v8351ede6e8a5455c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908031424x5834a9eaqda9387f3a8f95416@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031431j2c1ac038v8351ede6e8a5455c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804104021.c63637e9.jon.forums@gmail.com>

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:31:09 -0300
Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I can ask RubyForge admins to switch the URL of rubyforge.org to point
> >> to GitHub. will check with them.
> >>
> >
> > I can do this (now that I'm an admin ;-) ), if you think it's best.
> > My vote would be to wait until we have rubyinstaller.org up and
> > redirect it there, but I'll be happy to point it to the github wiki,
> > if so desired.
> >
> 
> Let's keep as is and add the pointer to the old wiki pointing to the new one.


Nice. I like how the rubyforge wiki page now bounces to the GitHub wiki.

How about doing the same to http://rubyforge.org/scm/?group_id=167

...and let's check all the other links on rubyforge and point them to the appropriate GitHub page for the short term.

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 11:02:01 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:02:01 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
 properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804110201.60eb3ad6.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Oh, you mean the "Coming soon"... took me a lot to put that file online! ;-)
> 
> What if we just put a simple page with the info and concentrate the
> links until the site is done? I can get the Radiant and the DB put in
> place tonight.

How about we keep the Radiant and DB efforts kept to an alpha web site until it's closer to being ready.  Keep the Radiant effort focused on being the "real" site and don't try to have it perform two different roles.

In the short term, let's put up a simple static page for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ with a couple of links back to GitHub.

As many have mentioned, we can then redirect the appropriate rubyforge pages to rubyinstaller/github pages.  This will be the 1st phase of the new site.  It won't be the final of course, but I think it will great for the short term and begin to get people used to where the new info will be.

If you'll contact me offline and tell me how/where it's hosted I'll do the work to create the simple static pages based upon Pavel's first rough draft.

Taking a look at his work, I think it's fairly straightforward to whip up a static HTML, CSS w/Blueprint, PNG images, and a few links that will look cool.  I'll tweak his existing graphics and when he's back online, he and I can coordinate to ensure quick placeholder page is consistent with what he's doing for the main Radiant site.  I'll also begin color coordinating the GitHub pages with his color scheme in order to make things mesh together a little better.

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 11:36:49 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:36:49 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> I was working over the weekend on getting updated installers which
> solved several issues reported at RubyForge and GitHub issues:
> 
> http://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/blob/master/History.txt

Nice!

 
> As the TODO list stands today:
> 
> http://gist.github.com/151832

Thanks for keeping it updated.  It allows us to keep up to date and chime in when we have some time and ask you what specifically needs done for items on the list.

One note, please ensure you break down the tasks into relevant "micro-tasks" so that someone who has about ~1hr or so to contribute can help without needing too take on too big of a bite-o-work.

This is one of the themes I think is so important for projects....courting the "micro-contributor" who wants to help out but only has limited amounts of time.  We need to make it easy for people to come and go while still adding value.  More on this later...


> Now, we need to determine the steps for the documentation.
> 
> >From the last things that we discussed, Gordon's work is going to
> provide a suitable CHM file for us to rejoice.
> 
> We still want RI docs? Perhaps we can add some note to the installer?
> 
> I'm with the idea of promoting it, but if RI is a must, want to hear
> what you guys think (last time, I promise).


With Gordon's work I'm now for *completely* omitting the RI files combined with the following:

1) [MUST HAVE] notification in the install process that RI information is contained in the CHM files.  Make sure this notification is also prominent in any README installed.

2) [NICE TO HAVE] quick hook in ri command to print out a header that reminds a user to check the CHM files.  This would be a Monkey Patch specific to OCI I know, but is useful for the case in which RI info is generated for installed RubyGems.

We need to get closure on this one and move on.  I'm strongly advocating *not* including the RI info.  If we find out later this was a stoopid decision that causes a lot of problem tickets, we can revisit.

Chime in now....



OTHER OPEN DOCUMENTATION ISSUES
===============================
1) what additional documentation, if any, should be installed as part of the documentation installer.

My personal vote is just for as it appears to be more maintained:

The Book of Ruby, 2.9MB:
http://www.sapphiresteel.com/The-Book-Of-Ruby


2) What are the final links to be created by the installer?  For example...

http://allgems.ruby-forum.com/
others?



From luislavena at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 12:14:51 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:14:51 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
	properly?
In-Reply-To: <20090804110201.60eb3ad6.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5a95d2680908031324i24b5b451kee17f54f9e00df49@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908031337u4643c117hb0bd17297d372244@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090804110201.60eb3ad6.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908040914he83cba6j5863be4a98027f7f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh, you mean the "Coming soon"... took me a lot to put that file online! ;-)
>>
>> What if we just put a simple page with the info and concentrate the
>> links until the site is done? I can get the Radiant and the DB put in
>> place tonight.
>
> How about we keep the Radiant and DB efforts kept to an alpha web site until it's closer to being ready. ?Keep the Radiant effort focused on being the "real" site and don't try to have it perform two different roles.
>
> In the short term, let's put up a simple static page for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ with a couple of links back to GitHub.
>

Ok, sounds reasonable.

> As many have mentioned, we can then redirect the appropriate rubyforge pages to rubyinstaller/github pages. ?This will be the 1st phase of the new site. ?It won't be the final of course, but I think it will great for the short term and begin to get people used to where the new info will be.
>
> If you'll contact me offline and tell me how/where it's hosted I'll do the work to create the simple static pages based upon Pavel's first rough draft.
>

Will do.

> Taking a look at his work, I think it's fairly straightforward to whip up a static HTML, CSS w/Blueprint, PNG images, and a few links that will look cool. ?I'll tweak his existing graphics and when he's back online, he and I can coordinate to ensure quick placeholder page is consistent with what he's doing for the main Radiant site. ?I'll also begin color coordinating the GitHub pages with his color scheme in order to make things mesh together a little better.
>

Don't kill yourself in the process, just a placeholder with proper
links and a brief of information is enough.

Thank you once again for the effort.

PS: When we would be able to know your last name? :D
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 14:07:24 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:07:24 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9.1 FFI Gem
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908041107g6649f29bl45825f90b41a6eff@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/4 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
> Hello all.

Hello Matt!

> I'm somewhat new at this so I appreciate your patience with me.
> I have been testing some gems on?WinXP SP2, Ruby 1.9.1-p129 mingw32
> installer and devkit from rubyinstaller.org. ?The following output is from
> an attempt to install FFI:
> [...]
>
> Apparently Ruby 1.9.1 redefines ftruncate in win32.h:341 which conflicts
> with mingw32. ?I can get the gem to compile by wrapping line 341 in win32.h
> with the following:

Ruby has the tendency to define their own functions without checking
they existed on the compiler headers.

> I post this here in the hopes that it will be useful to someone else but I'd
> also like to try something new. ?I'd like to try and give back to Ruby. ?I'm
> not really sure how to proceed. ?Any tips from those who have contributed
> patches to Ruby?
>

Please post this exact same thing to Redmine here:

http://redmine.ruby-lang.org/

Indeed is a Ruby overlook that needs to be fixed.

Perhaps #if !defined(ftruncate) could possible work, since maybe older
versions of MinGW missed that.

Thank you for reporting this.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 14:35:27 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:35:27 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9.1 FFI Gem
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804143527.6afd24d8.jon.forums@gmail.com>


> C:/Ruby/devkit/gcc/3.4.5/bin/../lib/gcc/mingw32/3.4.5/../../../../include/unistd.h:43:
> > error: previous definition of 'ftruncate' was here
> 
> make: *** [Invoker.o] Error 1
> 
> 
> Apparently Ruby 1.9.1 redefines ftruncate in win32.h:341 which conflicts
> with mingw32.  I can get the gem to compile by wrapping line 341 in win32.h
> with the following:
> 
> #if !defined __MINGW32__
> 
> extern int       ftruncate(int fd, off_t length);
> 
> #endif
> 
> 
> I post this here in the hopes that it will be useful to someone else but I'd
> also like to try something new.  I'd like to try and give back to Ruby.  I'm
> not really sure how to proceed.  Any tips from those who have contributed
> patches to Ruby? 

Matt,

Hi and thanks for the feedback.  It looks similiar to the one I had on my WinXP machine and posted to the ruby-ffi site.

http://kenai.com/projects/ruby-ffi/lists/dev/archive/2009-07/message/10

>From Wayne's response it appears he made a change and pushed to their Mercurial repo.  I haven't had a chance to get back to it myself, but maybe you've got time to give them some feedback?

On a different note, if you've had some good results using the DevKit with other native gems, it would be great if you could add to:

http://wiki.github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/gem-list

Jon


From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:47:22 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:47:22 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
 properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908031253w3f566299u1125240d567938ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908031122p75ee9467g5dc551300c9ee859@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908031240p695a2076sa62d224dc55fe206@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908031253w3f566299u1125240d567938ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804154722.20665de4.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> > I agree with Roger.? In fact, I tried to add an experimental section to the
> > Rubyforge wiki myself at
> > http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstaller (the target of
> > the ruby-lang downloads 'one-click installer' link).? My edit failed because
> > of the external link and security settings on the wiki.

Gordon...like link on the rubyforge wiki that points to the github main wiki page as well as the github main wiki page link to http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/



> So the best thing to do is next preview release is put on RubyForge
> and put the correct notice and warn labels ;-)

I'm not so sure we want to be changing locations of where the next preview release will be.  It's confusing and frustrating to people if the download locations keep changing.

I'm for keeping all of the preview releases on http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ and double check that all of the links on rubyforge.org point to Gordon's updates to our main github wiki page.  This will be the download page once the final site goes live and we should start getting everyone used to going to this page.

As soon as I finish with the new static page for http://rubyinstaller.org/ we can start pointing things there once we're happy with it.


> That is going to help a bit more until the website is done and the "Coming soon" can go away ;-)

I've now got Pavel's rough draft files and will use it as the base of the new static page.

Luis...get me the hosting and access info (off mailing list) and I'll take it from there as well as tweak it as needed.

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:31:58 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:31:58 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Is the work done here not being exposed
 properly?
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908030920v19916c4t406e85ee83d58c82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804163158.8b0aefd9.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Please, be open and sincere about it, I'm open to comments or suggestions to change what I'm doing wrong.


While I think some of Antonio's frustrations are valid, I also think we should take a step back before we run off and do things, and think a bit more about makes the most sense for us to do given our limited resources.

>From my perspective, one of the most important things to have in place before you start your PR, or Technical Marketing, or Evangelizing (or whatever you feel comfortable calling it) efforts is to really have nailed down a great "foundation" for your project.

This doesn't mean it has to be "perfect".  It simply means it has to be "great enough" and doable with our current resourcing.

Nothing ruins good opportunities quicker creating a ton of cool buzz and excitement for your project, and then completely underwhelming people when they check it out by not having your ducks in a row.

Quite frankly, we only have so many silver bullets to take advantage of the attention we drum up.

You never want to waste good buzz you've created on ruby-talk (and other places) by having people come to your project and go "WTF!?  This is lame. It's even close to being ready to look at.  I'm outa here"  We need to ensure the OCI project site leaves people with a "good enough" first impression that they don't run away in frustration.

And the great thing is that much of the current OCI work is great.  It's not lame at all.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We've got:

* Solid 1.8.6 and 1.9.1 MinGW-based preview builds
* A DevKit that easily enables folks to build native gems
* Nice core and standard lib documentation in the form of CHM's and Gordon spending a bunch of his valuable time to update and maintain these
* A cool rake-compiler tool to help with building native gems
* Interest from a web developer in helping to create a great new web site.
* The beginnings of a value-add developer focused site at GitHub.
* And, most importantly, some knowledgeable people who are passionate about getting a great Ruby experience on Windows.

While we've got all these great pieces, we've yet been able to combine them into a solid, coherent foundation upon which we can build.

It's this building of the foundation I'm advocating for as a next step.  And I don't think it needs to take forever if we can focus on pragmatism rather than perfectionism.

To quickly build this foundation, I strongly believe we need to focus on the following three themes:

1) Create a compelling project site (in phases and utilizing as much existing content).
2) Push out the next OCI by focusing and resourcing the key TODO's
3) Make it easy for people to contribute and provide feedback

Once we feel these three are solid, I think the fun begins and we can talk creative ways to drum up interest!


This email is already much longer than what I wanted.  However, if we think the "Three Themes" are on track, let's get 3 separate email chains going (one for each topic), hammer out the details, and get people signing up to do the specific tasks.

I'll start threads for (1) and (3) either later today or tomorrow.  Who's going to pick up #2?

Thoughts?  Any other key themes we need to address to nail down the foundation?

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:07:41 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:07:41 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
Message-ID: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>

So what *specifically* do we need to do to make it easier to contribute and provide feedback?  What are the easiest things we can start doing right now with the folks we have?

The two biggies for me:

1) Unify the multiple wiki's, trackers, mailing lists, etc.  We need to decide whether we're going to use RubyForge or GitHub.  We need a single place for people to go.  Madness and confusion lies down the path of using both of them at the same time.

That said, the discussion also needs to address how "unification" fits in with the final Radiant-based project website.  Does the Radiant CMS allow us to put a facade over either RubyForge or GitHub and tie things together seamlesssly?  Or does Radiant try to duplicate certain features and we need to decide what to enable/disable when integrating.
 
One of the hard questions we need about the RubyForge content is, "Do we really even need the site too stay live?  Is the content so outdated that it is both unhelpful and dangerously incorrect?"


2) Ensure our mindset is one of enabling "micro contributions" from people.

This means that (a) we have a very visible project TODO page on the wiki, and (b) the TODO list contains tasks grouped by expected implementation difficulty and importance.  This allows people to have better expectations of what they're getting into.

For example, for the documentation and installer tasks on http://gist.github.com/151832.  Both need to be broken down a bit more if possible to show "micro tasks" that folks can help Luis and Gordon out with.

And the balance is that I don't think we want to make the TODO list too overwhelming to maintain or understand.  We can certainly go over the top, but...

Maybe something along the lines of:


Critical Project Tasks
======================

  Difficult to Implement
  ----------------------
  ...


  Moderately Difficult to Implement
  ---------------------------------
  ...


  Easy to Implement
  -----------------
  ...


Important, but Not Critical Project Tasks
=========================================

  (same categories as above)
  

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:25:13 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:25:13 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
Message-ID: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>

My impression is that we've got a good handle on this one and just need to get the work done.  I also think we need to break the effort into at least two phases.


** Phase 1 ** goal is to quickly get a static pages up for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ that are similar in theme to the work Pavel will be doing for Phase 2.

These static pages will integrate with both RubyForge and GitHub and some of this has already started.

I've let the monkey jump on my back for this one ;)  My plan is to create some time and get something up within the next 3-5 days for us to review and critique.

Luis...get me the hosting info/access ASAP or I'm putting the monkey on your back! >;->



** Phase 2 ** goal should be to resource the development of the Radiant-based CMS that Pavel's going to take the lead as well as identify *specifically* what we want for the initial content as well as how we'd like it to integrate in with the existing RubyForge and GitHub sites.  I'm currently of the strong opinion that the Radiant-based site needs to be THE single go-to site for the OCI project.

While I think the development site should be accessible for review, I am strongly against it trying to be shoe horned into trying to fulfill both short-term and long-term roles.  It's role should be the real project portal and Phase 1 should be made "good enough" to allow us to do more project evangelizing while Phase 2 is being completed.


Thoughts...please make sure we understand whether the feedback is for Phase 1 or Phase 2 or both.

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:40:26 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:40:26 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9.1 FFI Gem
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804174026.22098fab.jon.forums@gmail.com>

Matt,

Thanks for the add to http://wiki.github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/gem-list

Would you update the DevKit to 3.4.5r3 as well?

This is what Luis is internally calling it but hasn't found the time yet to update the download to make it clear to everyone that it's revision 3.

Thanks, Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:55:08 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:55:08 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9.1 FFI Gem
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908041445u25e70859vd99a203f1fcb0600@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090804174026.22098fab.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908041445u25e70859vd99a203f1fcb0600@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804175508.0b4a6524.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Done.

Thanks!


> And thanks for your enthusiasm for this project.  I'm excited to see where I
> can help out.

Me too.

I'm really hoping that by making the project micro-contribution opportunities more visible, it will be easier for people to see how they can contribute any amount of time and expertise they may have.

And the micro-tasks are also good ways to get up to speed on things.

We'll see :)

Jon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:12:16 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:12:16 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
In-Reply-To: <20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908041912k1eeaee1kb143aaab539730bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As the TODO list stands today:
>>
>> http://gist.github.com/151832
>
> [...]
>
> One note, please ensure you break down the tasks into relevant "micro-tasks" so that someone who has about ~1hr or so to contribute can help without needing too take on too big of a bite-o-work.
>

I thought I did slice those to small pieces. For example, testing the
installers could be considered a micro-task.

Adding the History file to the installer, while it requires some
InnoSetup knowledge, should be pretty straight forward (using
InnoSetup and ISTool as GUI editing tool.

>
> With Gordon's work I'm now for *completely* omitting the RI files combined with the following:
>
> 1) [MUST HAVE] notification in the install process that RI information is contained in the CHM files. ?Make sure this notification is also prominent in any README installed.
>

That is then candidate for a better README.txt, adding that to the
TODO. The README content will be added to the installer and a shortcut
will be displayed in the Start Menu.

> 2) [NICE TO HAVE] quick hook in ri command to print out a header that reminds a user to check the CHM files. ?This would be a Monkey Patch specific to OCI I know, but is useful for the case in which RI info is generated for installed RubyGems.
>

Unless someone patch and stub ri command, I believe that is not going
to happen right now, Adding this to the TODO for volunteers to take
over.

> We need to get closure on this one and move on. ?I'm strongly advocating *not* including the RI info. ?If we find out later this was a stoopid decision that causes a lot of problem tickets, we can revisit.
>

Me too.

So: no separate installers for the CHM, those will be bundled in the installer.

Gordon: would you mind send me a pull request when your fork is
acceptable to integrate the CHM into the installer?


> OTHER OPEN DOCUMENTATION ISSUES
> ===============================
> 1) what additional documentation, if any, should be installed as part of the documentation installer.
>
> My personal vote is just for as it appears to be more maintained:
>
> The Book of Ruby, 2.9MB:
> http://www.sapphiresteel.com/The-Book-Of-Ruby
>

We need to request permission for doing it, added to the TODO list and
assigned to you.

> 2) What are the final links to be created by the installer? ?For example...
>
> http://allgems.ruby-forum.com/
> others?
>

Right now, you can find that here:

http://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/blob/master/resources/installer/rubyinstaller.iss#L73-76

All those point to ruby-doc, since current installer used as
reference. There is one 1.8 and 1.9 specific, which is Core API, that
can be found inside config-1.8 and config-1.9

Anyone thinking on better links? Send your requests. Even better: open
a ticket on GitHub issues, then we are going to vote which is going to
be better for it.

That's all for now I believe.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:56:14 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:56:14 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
> My impression is that we've got a good handle on this one and just need to get the work done. ?I also think we need to break the effort into at least two phases.
>
>
> ** Phase 1 ** goal is to quickly get a static pages up for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ that are similar in theme to the work Pavel will be doing for Phase 2.
>
> These static pages will integrate with both RubyForge and GitHub and some of this has already started.

By integration you mean: pull of RubyForge information or just
integrate the links more seamlessly?

>
> I've let the monkey jump on my back for this one ;) ?My plan is to create some time and get something up within the next 3-5 days for us to review and critique.
>
> Luis...get me the hosting info/access ASAP or I'm putting the monkey on your back! >;->
>

Sent you the login information, so now the monkey is in your back.

> ** Phase 2 ** goal should be to resource the development of the Radiant-based CMS that Pavel's going to take the lead as well as identify *specifically* what we want for the initial content as well as how we'd like it to integrate in with the existing RubyForge and GitHub sites. ?I'm currently of the strong opinion that the Radiant-based site needs to be THE single go-to site for the OCI project.
>

We then need to know if we are going to maintain the GitHub wiki (we
already pointed lot of people there) Or move it to our Radiant site.

My personal preference is keep the following:

1) RubyForge: Tracker, Downloads and Mailing list
2) GitHub: Code repository and Wiki
3) Radiant: News and download links

This means A) we need to find a way to either pull the information or
just display the relevant links to users are not lost going back and
forth the sites.

For what is worth:

http://rubyonrails.org/download
http://rubyonrails.org/documentation
http://rubyonrails.org/community

All linking to different places.

> While I think the development site should be accessible for review, I am strongly against it trying to be shoe horned into trying to fulfill both short-term and long-term roles. ?It's role should be the real project portal and Phase 1 should be made "good enough" to allow us to do more project evangelizing while Phase 2 is being completed.
>

Agree.

>
> Thoughts...please make sure we understand whether the feedback is for Phase 1 or Phase 2 or both.
>

Again, I believe Phase 1 should not try to do a lot and for Phase 2,
we shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel doing Wiki, bug tracking and
other stuff already established like RubyForge or discard the work
done over GitHub.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Wed Aug  5 04:29:36 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:29:36 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 04/08/2009 22:07, Jon wrote:
> So what *specifically* do we need to do to make it easier to contribute and provide feedback?  What are the easiest things we can start doing right now with the folks we have?

One thing that occurred to me is the lack of accessibility of this 
mailing list. It's where the beating heart of RubyInstaller lies, IMHO, 
but herein lies the problem: it's really quite hard to find.

Plus there are three lists, which I think seems like overkill to me, 
judging by the amount of traffic on the other lists, and probably 
encourages the problem of "too many choices" (http://sivers.org/jam). I 
think one list might be a better way to go. You could provide a 
Feedburner email subscription to the site feed for those that only want 
announcements.

I always cringe a little when I see a mailman list these days because 
it's yet another set of credentials I have to maintain. I would 
personally prefer to see a central list hosted on Google Groups for the 
sheer convenience of it. Or failing that, setup a mirror on Google 
Groups, or Nabble, or Ruby Forum? Nabble is nice because it gives you a 
forum-like front-end that can be embedded into the site.

In other words, strip out unnecessary options, simplify, and make the 
discussion(s) more visible.

Charles

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:44:33 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:44:33 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> > ** Phase 1 ** goal is to quickly get a static pages up for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ that are similar in theme to the work Pavel will be doing for Phase 2.
> >
> > These static pages will integrate with both RubyForge and GitHub and some of this has already started.
> 
> By integration you mean: pull of RubyForge information or just
> integrate the links more seamlessly?

Integrate the links more seamlessly.

Speaking of which, we need to decide what to do with http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstallerNews.

Currently I'm for putting a few snippets on the placeholder page and update the RubyForge page with a link similar to Gordon's mod to http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstaller


> Sent you the login information, so now the monkey is in your back.

Monkey received and firmly clutching my back.


> > ** Phase 2 ** goal should be to resource the development of the Radiant-based CMS that Pavel's going to take the lead as well as identify *specifically* what we want for the initial content as well as how we'd like it to integrate in with the existing RubyForge and GitHub sites. ?I'm currently of the strong opinion that the Radiant-based site needs to be THE single go-to site for the OCI project.
> >
> 
> We then need to know if we are going to maintain the GitHub wiki (we
> already pointed lot of people there) Or move it to our Radiant site.
> 
> My personal preference is keep the following:
> 
> 1) RubyForge: Tracker, Downloads and Mailing list
> 2) GitHub: Code repository and Wiki
> 3) Radiant: News and download links

Agree on (2) and (3).

I don't follow you on the Downloads at RubyForge.  Are you saying you *do not* want downloads available from http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ but want it to link back to the correct RubyForge download page?

If this is the case, I see no reason why we don't immediately start putting the preview releases and DevKit downloads on RubyForge.

WRT the mailing list, what are your thoughts on Charles Roper's idea?

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:55:20 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:55:20 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090805105520.fc487577.jon.forums@gmail.com>

FYI, I've copied Pavel's homepage mockup over to

http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/

and will use that location to make the mods while working with Pavel to keep coordinated with his design.

While the page isn't going to be complex, I'd like for you to regularly check it and let me know if you have any browser/platform problems.  I plan on checking with:

FF 3.5.x on Win2K, WinXP, Vista, XUbuntu
IE6 on Win2K (ugh)
IE8 on WinXP, Vista
Chrome 2.0.x on WinXP, Vista
Safari 4.0.x on WinXP

Jon

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:42:18 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:42:18 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Charles Roper<reachme at charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
> On 04/08/2009 22:07, Jon wrote:
>>
>> So what *specifically* do we need to do to make it easier to contribute
>> and provide feedback? ?What are the easiest things we can start doing right
>> now with the folks we have?
>
> One thing that occurred to me is the lack of accessibility of this mailing
> list. It's where the beating heart of RubyInstaller lies, IMHO, but herein
> lies the problem: it's really quite hard to find.
>

I just added a "Community" page to the wiki that links to the
Rubyforge list page.  This can, of course, be updated to another list,
if need be.

> Plus there are three lists, which I think seems like overkill to me, judging
> by the amount of traffic on the other lists, and probably encourages the
> problem of "too many choices" (http://sivers.org/jam). I think one list
> might be a better way to go. You could provide a Feedburner email
> subscription to the site feed for those that only want announcements.
>

Agreed.  One list is all we need.

> I always cringe a little when I see a mailman list these days because it's
> yet another set of credentials I have to maintain. I would personally prefer
> to see a central list hosted on Google Groups for the sheer convenience of
> it. Or failing that, setup a mirror on Google Groups, or Nabble, or Ruby
> Forum? Nabble is nice because it gives you a forum-like front-end that can
> be embedded into the site.
>
> In other words, strip out unnecessary options, simplify, and make the
> discussion(s) more visible.
>

I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
there.  It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
find, sign up, and search).

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:49:53 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:49:53 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>


> I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
> there.  It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
> find, sign up, and search).

I also agree.  It's very easy to manage multiple mailing lists/groups and individually set mail notifications all in one simple interface.

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:50:16 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:50:16 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908050850n29d8621drfa08a6fe7becacf@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of which, we need to decide what to do with http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstallerNews.
>
> Currently I'm for putting a few snippets on the placeholder page and update the RubyForge page with a link similar to Gordon's mod to http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?RubyInstaller
>

I put a link to the rubyforge news page* for now.  Luis is putting
regular updates there.

*http://rubyforge.org/news/?group_id=167

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 12:05:10 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:05:10 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <170fa1780908050842w2a5251d9j26da152df09dcf86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805105520.fc487577.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<170fa1780908050842w2a5251d9j26da152df09dcf86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908050905v34c5cffyaa0f6c2e9c433069@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/5 James Stallings II <james.stallings at gmail.com>:
> Hey Y'all,
>

Hi James

> I parted company with ruby some time back (it just didnt scale well for the
> application area I entered) and have been increasingly tasked with deleting
> messages since the recent increase in activity with your project. Would
> someone mind telling me how to exit the list properly?
>

Check here:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rubyinstaller-devel

If you still have trouble, let me know off-list, and I'll see what I can do.

> No offense, ruby rocks, just not for me at this time :D

None taken.  I know how annoying it can be to be stuck on a list and
unable to unsubscribe.

Gordon

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 12:09:14 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:09:14 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ** Phase 1 ** goal is to quickly get a static pages up for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ that are similar in theme to the work Pavel will be doing for Phase 2.
>> >
>> > These static pages will integrate with both RubyForge and GitHub and some of this has already started.
>>
>> By integration you mean: pull of RubyForge information or just
>> integrate the links more seamlessly?
>
> Integrate the links more seamlessly.
>

I've forked Luis' todo gist with my thoughts on this.

http://gist.github.com/162777

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 12:30:41 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:30:41 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <170fa1780908050923t1d1fbcc8p6d55824d5c952163@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<170fa1780908050923t1d1fbcc8p6d55824d5c952163@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908050930g1f90cb8bn81ba52cb3b94f6b7@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/5 James Stallings II <james.stallings at gmail.com>:
> Thanks Matt,
>
> Right now I'm doing some approximately realtime work (what -is- realtime
> anyway ;)
>

Yeah, realtime is not even realtime. Linux sucks at that too :P

> A lot of metaverse/virtual worlds stuff. Timing sensitive, server-side
> physics simulation and the like. Speed is critical.

Well, I did broadcasting video interfacing with proprietary hardware,
so had to deal with C, C++ and Assembler for LONG time (like 12
years).

Ruby become my sanity check to avoid repetitive tasks, and now turned
to be more centered for my current endeavors.

> Thanks for the assist, and good luck with the project - keep up the great
> work :)
>

Thanks to you, you can unsubscribe using the links at the footer of
the messages.

Have a good life!
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 10:32:56 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:32:56 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] FYI: Ruby FFI tidbits
Message-ID: <20090806103256.72c0037d.jon.forums@gmail.com>

I don't know how many of you are tracking the really cool efforts of Wayne and the FFI team, but just in case you're not already aware, here are some interesting FFI tidbits:

1) New 0.4.0 version available as a gem from http://gems.rubyforge.org/

Both Matt and I had install failures on 0.3.5.  I just got done trying out the following on an old test system (Win2K SP4) I use specifically because it's so cranky (things like spaces in pathnames, etc).  Here's what I got with 1.9.1p129 with DevKit 3.4.5r3:

D:\Jon\My Documents>gem19 install ffi
Building native extensions.  This could take a while...
Successfully installed ffi-0.4.0
1 gem installed
Installing ri documentation for ffi-0.4.0...
Updating class cache with 2146 classes...
Installing RDoc documentation for ffi-0.4.0...

GREAT!!!  Now to start actually playing with it and try it on XP, Vista, and 1.8.6...


2) The main FFI repository has moved to http://github.com/ffi/ffi/tree/master


3) From the worth watching category, part of Wayne's update to this issue

http://kenai.com/projects/ruby-ffi/lists/dev/archive/2009-08/message/5

was

"Win32 support is still in the "use at your own risk" category. Hopefully if it compiles on the devkit now, any problems can be fixed by windows people."

I for one have no problem with this other than I don't know who the "windows people" are ;)  I'm guessing there are a few here that might be interested though.

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 07:35:54 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:35:54 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] RubyInline: Path with spaces,
	cannot 	reproduce
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908011649t39c33775mbcecc69e0e0cfc89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907251201j48053eb1rb99c9944f1e8dcfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570907271657v2a803282w5e47844bee63d852@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0907271707m30472d23gced5e4255e0427cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908010348o2c3abe9vab90112af8222cb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908011649t39c33775mbcecc69e0e0cfc89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080435o1607a498x8e4d35a0bf938b2f@mail.gmail.com>

> Please change your gcc.bat to only load bin of MinGW and call gcc.exe
> with %*, like my sample script.

Sweet that fixed it. I look forward to the new scripts.  What are the
plans for the devkit, anyway? Is it to be a new installer?
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:08:26 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:08:26 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9.1 FFI Gem
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbc5c9680908041018n45cbd202i46c51a0f19f15a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080608g3c68c7e6j7593e44a061531f5@mail.gmail.com>

>>
>> #if !defined __MINGW32__
>>
>> extern int ? ? ? ftruncate(int fd, off_t length);
>>
>> #endif
>
> I post this here in the hopes that it will be useful to someone else but I'd
> also like to try something new. ?I'd like to try and give back to Ruby. ?I'm
> not really sure how to proceed. ?Any tips from those who have contributed
> patches to Ruby?

Yeah 1.9.x is much more aggressive with the things it re-defines for
some reason [fstat, et. al]
One hack around is to add #undef xxx in your own code, after you do an
include<ruby.h>
GL.
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:35:45 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:35:45 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
In-Reply-To: <20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080635n51381dedx9d413a337d7c2fd8@mail.gmail.com>

> We need to get closure on this one and move on. ?I'm strongly advocating *not* including the RI info. ?If we find out later this was a stoopid decision that causes a lot of problem tickets, we can revisit.
>
> Chime in now....

Perhaps the CHM's can go in the main installer and the ri's in another?
Or maybe I could work on an ri generator gem, i.e.
$ gem install ri_generator
$ ri_generate_core # downloads core, runs rdoc against it, installs
the ri for you locally

Then we would never have to worry about installing ri--the end user
can easily recreate the RI on the fly :)

Thoughts?

>
> 2) What are the final links to be created by the installer? ?For example...
>
> http://allgems.ruby-forum.com/

+1 for that one [oh wait, I made it so I'm biased].
Thanks.
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:38:10 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:38:10 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080638q25d6130bxcd3e568f23640dea@mail.gmail.com>

>> I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
>> there. ?It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
>> find, sign up, and search).

+1 far easier for users to post to and search.

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 11:19:15 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:19:15 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] FYI: Ruby FFI tidbits
In-Reply-To: <20090806103256.72c0037d.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090806103256.72c0037d.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080819n5aa4a08fv4346eb6d39c29c64@mail.gmail.com>

> D:\Jon\My Documents>gem19 install ffi
> Building native extensions. ?This could take a while...
> Successfully installed ffi-0.4.0
> 1 gem installed
> Installing ri documentation for ffi-0.4.0...
> Updating class cache with 2146 classes...
> Installing RDoc documentation for ffi-0.4.0...
>
> GREAT!!! ?Now to start actually playing with it and try it on XP, Vista, and 1.8.6...

Ahh the good feeling when native extensions build correctly in mingw...ahh.
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 11:41:53 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:41:53 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080635n51381dedx9d413a337d7c2fd8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908080635n51381dedx9d413a337d7c2fd8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080841g816fe00o664a748255c91a83@mail.gmail.com>

> Perhaps the CHM's can go in the main installer and the ri's in another?
> Or maybe I could work on an ri generator gem, i.e.
> $ gem install ri_generator
> $ ri_generate_core # downloads core, runs rdoc against it, installs
> the ri for you locally
>
> Then we would never have to worry about installing ri--the end user
> can easily recreate the RI on the fly :)
>
> Thoughts?

Another option would be to somehow make an ri that can link into a
remote ri, so you don't have to install things locally [ex: link in to
webri.tigerops.org].  I might blend that into my method describer
gem[1] soon.

[1] http://github.com/rogerdpack/method_describer/tree/master

-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:45:54 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:45:54 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9 gem env is far slower than on 1.8?
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080945o3de36d47j62dbfcfad523ec1d@mail.gmail.com>

Currently when I run "gem env" on a windows machine

with 1.8.6 it takes [~80 gems installed]

real    0m0.360s

with 1.9.1 [~80 gems]

real    0m1.610s

with 1.9.2 [~40 gems]

real    0m1.140s

[all with 1.3.5 installed]

Not so for Linux--1.9.2 seems slightly faster than 1.8.6 for its gem list.

Anybody have any inkling as to what's going on here?
Thanks!
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:54:02 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:54:02 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] ruby readline question
Message-ID: <e880bd570908080954p3f80591ehbabfa5bda966afc@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed that we currently still

recipes/interpreter/ruby19.rake
68:        rm_f 'test/readline/test_readline.rb'

delete the readline test [and indeed, it still fails pretty badly on
windows].  Is this expected? (Just asking in case it was only an
oversight to exclude the tests still).

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 13:28:58 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:28:58 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9 gem env is far slower than on 1.8?
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080945o3de36d47j62dbfcfad523ec1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908080945o3de36d47j62dbfcfad523ec1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090808132858.6ae3eefc.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Anybody have any inkling as to what's going on here?
> Thanks!
> -r

FWIW, I've noticed my 1.9.1 gem commands are noticeably slower than my 1.8.6 commands.

Same thing when I'm run rspec.

For example, when running a spec for a patch to the treetop cmd line compiler I submitted, I was seeing ~20 secs on 1.9.1 vs ~12 secs on 1.8.6 on my Win test box.  While there were plenty of Kernel.system and Kernel.open calls, I was surprised at the delta.  Haven't tried it yet on my XUbuntu 9.04 system.

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 13:57:44 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:57:44 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
Message-ID: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>

Take a look at http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/ when you get a chance.

If all looks stable, I'll finish reviewing with Pavel to ensure it's close enought to the real site.

I'm currently of the mindset that it's good enough to replace our "Coming soon" placeholder once I shrink the whitespace between the top graphic band and the lower icon band.  I don't think we need to feel the need to add text before going live with this simple static page.

Any additional text/graphics/etc you think we need?

So far the only problem I've found is with IE6/Win2K in which the lower band of icons wraps.  I'll manually fix the CSS later like I did the top nav menu.  Ah...IE6...

Haven't checked on my Firefox/Xubuntu system and have no feedback from a Mac or other *nix browers.  Graphics look great in elinks, though.



Things To Consider
==================

* uses standard CSS (blueprintcss) and JavaScript (JQuery) libraries for ease of growth (if needed) and maintenance rather than a bunch of customizations.  OK, I do tweak things a bit when needed :)

* uses xhtml 1.0 rather than html 4.01; works on IE6 so I don't expect this to be an issue

* not all linking behavior enabled: About in the top nav bar, the Mailing List icon, and the Add-on button are currently disabled.

* double-check whether the currently linking targets make sense

* uses JavaScript for interactivity and navigation.  The requirement for having js enabled in the browser is much less concerning to me these days as most people already have js enabled so they can interact with other mainstream sites.  I do plan to implement something better for notification if js disabled.

* added an "Ad-ons" button that will be linked to a page that will describe the optional, but very helpful, add-on tools.  Currently I plan to document "rake-compiler" and the "DevKit".  What else should be highlighted?

* I'm for getting rid of the current http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ page and simply redirecting to the appropriate RubyForge download page once the "Add-on" page is created and the previews files are available on RubyForge.  Is this a good idea?

* a second set of eyes on the code is always helpful.  The key files are:

http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/index.html
http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/styles/site.css
http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/scripts/site.js

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:14:43 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:14:43 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] RubyInline: Path with spaces,
	cannot 	reproduce
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080435o1607a498x8e4d35a0bf938b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907251201j48053eb1rb99c9944f1e8dcfa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570907271657v2a803282w5e47844bee63d852@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0907271707m30472d23gced5e4255e0427cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908010348o2c3abe9vab90112af8222cb1@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908011649t39c33775mbcecc69e0e0cfc89@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908080435o1607a498x8e4d35a0bf938b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081614t56775cd2qa1b79f536641da3b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Please change your gcc.bat to only load bin of MinGW and call gcc.exe
>> with %*, like my sample script.
>
> Sweet that fixed it. I look forward to the new scripts. ?What are the
> plans for the devkit, anyway? Is it to be a new installer?

New installer hopefully if God allows me, this weekend.

DevKit? as gem, no installer, so users will require/need internet
access. Still no progress on that since I'm still playing with the
porting system.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:51:24 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:51:24 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] ruby readline question
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080954p3f80591ehbabfa5bda966afc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908080954p3f80591ehbabfa5bda966afc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081651x2afb6664hda028df5c004c978@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed that we currently still
>
> recipes/interpreter/ruby19.rake
> 68: ? ? ? ?rm_f 'test/readline/test_readline.rb'
>
> delete the readline test [and indeed, it still fails pretty badly on
> windows]. ?Is this expected? (Just asking in case it was only an
> oversight to exclude the tests still).

Readline tests fails, with original or rb-readline library.

I thought there was a RubySpec for readline, but those were only stubs.

So I was excluding it during the rake check task, that's the reason
it's removed.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:55:10 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:55:10 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Heads up for preview2
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080635n51381dedx9d413a337d7c2fd8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908031503t7f3b9ed3h4d72ff444ad19309@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090804113649.7f14c8a7.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e880bd570908080635n51381dedx9d413a337d7c2fd8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081655g4561d185jd419796efd8ddf3b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> We need to get closure on this one and move on. ?I'm strongly advocating *not* including the RI info. ?If we find out later this was a stoopid decision that causes a lot of problem tickets, we can revisit.
>>
>> Chime in now....
>
> Perhaps the CHM's can go in the main installer and the ri's in another?

The CHM will be in the installer, no separate one.

> Or maybe I could work on an ri generator gem, i.e.
> $ gem install ri_generator
> $ ri_generate_core # downloads core, runs rdoc against it, installs
> the ri for you locally
>
> Then we would never have to worry about installing ri--the end user
> can easily recreate the RI on the fly :)
>
> Thoughts?
>

Be my guess and hack it :-D

>> 2) What are the final links to be created by the installer? ?For example...
>>
>> http://allgems.ruby-forum.com/
>
> +1 for that one [oh wait, I made it so I'm biased].

Sorry to ask, what would be the purpose of that particular link, and
what would be the title you would put to the shortcut?

Try to explain it in one sentence, since the shortcut and the tooltip
help are only one liners.

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:58:10 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:58:10 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] 1.9 gem env is far slower than on 1.8?
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908080945o3de36d47j62dbfcfad523ec1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908080945o3de36d47j62dbfcfad523ec1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081658v7ce1fb3bnf0f6c04c637b13cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> Currently when I run "gem env" on a windows machine
>
> with 1.8.6 it takes [~80 gems installed]
>
> real ? ?0m0.360s
>
> with 1.9.1 [~80 gems]
>
> real ? ?0m1.610s
>
> with 1.9.2 [~40 gems]
>
> real ? ?0m1.140s
>
> [all with 1.3.5 installed]
>
> Not so for Linux--1.9.2 seems slightly faster than 1.8.6 for its gem list.
>
> Anybody have any inkling as to what's going on here?

All the IO operations has been noticeably slower with 1.9 on Windows,
perhaps related to Unicode layer and additional processing needs to
perform over all the gemspec files.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 20:29:06 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:29:06 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
> Take a look at http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/ when you get a chance.
>

Looks good, read below for my comments.

> If all looks stable, I'll finish reviewing with Pavel to ensure it's close enought to the real site.
>
> I'm currently of the mindset that it's good enough to replace our "Coming soon" placeholder once I shrink the whitespace between the top graphic band and the lower icon band. ?I don't think we need to feel the need to add text before going live with this simple static page.
>
> Any additional text/graphics/etc you think we need?
>

* The Icon, iso and logo are not correct.

* The marketing text about "includes dozens of popular extensions" is
no longer correct.

* Help should link to community page in the wiki. For the time being
Help, mailing list and contribute should point to the same page.

* About is not linking anywhere.

* It is missing the copyright about the design (Pavel Macek) and the
conversion to HTML done by Jon.

> So far the only problem I've found is with IE6/Win2K in which the lower band of icons wraps. ?I'll manually fix the CSS later like I did the top nav menu. ?Ah...IE6...
>

Been tempted:
http://www.ie6nomore.com/

But no, not for now :-)

> Haven't checked on my Firefox/Xubuntu system and have no feedback from a Mac or other *nix browers.
?Graphics look great in elinks, though.
>

Looks good on Firefox and Chrome on Windows, and as a placeholder, is
much more than what we can ask.

Thank you Jon.

> [snip]

> * I'm for getting rid of the current http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ page and simply redirecting to the appropriate RubyForge download page once the "Add-on" page is created and the previews files are available on RubyForge. ?Is this a good idea?
>

We had 5GB of traffic just for August, I'm getting worried that my
current hosting provider call me to my cell phone.

So the move to RubyForge will be with preview2.

> * a second set of eyes on the code is always helpful. ?The key files are:
>

Can't comment too much on HTML and CSS, but will take a look.

Thank you again.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 20:41:53 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:41:53 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081741p1eab692fu11abb0cfccf1571f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > ** Phase 1 ** goal is to quickly get a static pages up for http://rubyinstaller.org/ and http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ that are similar in theme to the work Pavel will be doing for Phase 2.
>>> >
>>> > These static pages will integrate with both RubyForge and GitHub and some of this has already started.
>>>
>>> By integration you mean: pull of RubyForge information or just
>>> integrate the links more seamlessly?
>>
>> Integrate the links more seamlessly.
>>
>
> I've forked Luis' todo gist with my thoughts on this.
>
> http://gist.github.com/162777

Merged it, thanks.

What is the status for CHM? Can it be merged?
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 20:52:36 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:52:36 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Take a look at http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/ when you get a chance.
>>

Very nice.  The only question I have is with the links.  Why the use
of js, instead of regular anchor tags?  Just curious.  I'm used to
having the link displayed in my status bar is all.

>
> * Help should link to community page in the wiki. For the time being
> Help, mailing list and contribute should point to the same page.

I'm planning on starting a "Contribute" page in the wiki.  I have a
lot on my plate right now though, so I'm not sure when I'll get to it.
 I need to get the CHM stuff out the door first ;-)

>
> * About is not linking anywhere.
>

The content on the home page of the wiki would work well for an "About" page.

Thanks, Jon.

Gordon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 20:58:52 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:58:52 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081758g38f81818y9b5d9f51b0e0563c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Very nice. ?The only question I have is with the links. ?Why the use
> of js, instead of regular anchor tags? ?Just curious. ?I'm used to
> having the link displayed in my status bar is all.

Noticed that but didn't had the time to look at the details.

A tags are always better, since would let crawlers index it properly.

>> * Help should link to community page in the wiki. For the time being
>> Help, mailing list and contribute should point to the same page.
>
> I'm planning on starting a "Contribute" page in the wiki. ?I have a
> lot on my plate right now though, so I'm not sure when I'll get to it.
> ?I need to get the CHM stuff out the door first ;-)
>

Nono, focus on CHM stuff, please, pretty please? :-D

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:05:59 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:05:59 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908081741p1eab692fu11abb0cfccf1571f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081741p1eab692fu11abb0cfccf1571f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908081805p2d59904bl251d98c4f68a827e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What is the status for CHM? Can it be merged?
> --

Here's my todo list for getting the rake task ready.

  [*] Generate CHM files for Core and Standard Library (Gordon Thiesfeld)
    [ ] Finish Rdoc_CHM 2.4.0, and release gem on Rubyforge: see
http://wiki.github.com/vertiginous/rdoc_chm
    [ ] Add a main page to the main CHM file
      [ ] Content about Rubyinstaller project
      [ ] links to pertinent Ruby sites
    [ ] move config stuff from recipes/tools/docs.rake to
config/ruby_installer.rb
    [ ] Test against Ruby 1.8 and Ruby 1.9

Hopefully I'll have this done tonight.

Thanks,

Gordon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:59:33 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:59:33 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908081854i1491e9act856ee55d4f20d9fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fbc5c9680908081854i1491e9act856ee55d4f20d9fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908081859k4857782r98c726f5f1b22143@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/8 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
>> I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
>> there. ?It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
>> find, sign up, and search).
>
> Gordon,
> I see that you've got a full plate so I was going to go ahead and get the
> google group setup but rubyinstaller appears to be taken.

Go figure, who on earth will do that???

http://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller

Me! :-P

> Have you already
> started on that group? ?If not, what would you prefer for a group name?
> ?rubyinstaller-dev is available. ?I'll make you an owner once the group is
> setup.
>

RubyInstaller it is, no need for an aditional dev list.

For the time being I'm keeping both -users, -dev and groups active,
but sooner than later we would have to decide and disable the others.

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 22:13:56 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908081859k4857782r98c726f5f1b22143@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908081854i1491e9act856ee55d4f20d9fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081859k4857782r98c726f5f1b22143@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908081913i782b8850h8876f7b3252091b3@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/8/8 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
>>> I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
>>> there. ?It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
>>> find, sign up, and search).
>>
>> Gordon,
>> I see that you've got a full plate so I was going to go ahead and get the
>> google group setup but rubyinstaller appears to be taken.
>
> Go figure, who on earth will do that???
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller
>
> Me! :-P
>
>> Have you already
>> started on that group? ?If not, what would you prefer for a group name?
>> ?rubyinstaller-dev is available. ?I'll make you an owner once the group is
>> setup.
>>
>
> RubyInstaller it is, no need for an aditional dev list.
>
> For the time being I'm keeping both -users, -dev and groups active,
> but sooner than later we would have to decide and disable the others.
>

I've looked into turning off the rubyforge mailing lists.  We can mark
them private for a while, and no new folks will be able to sign up for
them.  We can send emails out to those lists saying to switch to
google groups for a month or so, then delete them.

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 08:36:35 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 07:36:35 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Next Steps for the OCI Project Site
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908081805p2d59904bl251d98c4f68a827e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804172513.dea7a3f1.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908041956t6347810cl5dc62d1ba8b160cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805104433.b6f03d4f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908050909l7d3b32blc2fc2a5790c57ef6@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081741p1eab692fu11abb0cfccf1571f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908081805p2d59904bl251d98c4f68a827e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908090536w41d7c9ddu3f1ff0a1bdfa1888@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Gordon Thiesfeld<gthiesfeld at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What is the status for CHM? Can it be merged?

It's not where I wanted it to be at this point, but my night hasn't
turned out the way I had hoped.  I ended up at work all night.  I've
got rdoc_chm ready for it's 2.4.0 release.  Unfortunately, I can't see
straight, so tha'ts going to have to wait.

>
> Here's my todo list for getting the rake task ready.

This is where I'm at now [1]
[ ] Documentation
  [*] Generate CHM files for Core and Standard Library (Gordon Thiesfeld)
    [*] Finish Rdoc_CHM 2.4.0 [2], and release gem on Rubyforge
    [X] Add a main page to the main CHM file
      [X] Content about Rubyinstaller project
      [X] links to pertinent Ruby sites
      [ ] move config stuff from recipes/tools/docs.rake to
config/ruby_installer.rb
    [X] Test against Ruby 1.8 and Ruby 1.9


The pull requiest has been sent!  The rake docs code is ugly, but it
works.  You'll need to install the HTML Help library[3], then if you
clone my rdoc_chm repo[4], and run rake install_gem, you should be
ready to run the tasks I've created.   I also uploaded[5] a a 1.8.6
and 1.9.1 version of the ruby documenatation so that people can look
it over.

> Hopefully I'll have this done tonight.
>

Not quite ;-)

Gordon

[1]http://gist.github.com/162777
[2] http://wiki.github.com/vertiginous/rdoc_chm
[3] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/htmlhelp/html/hwMicrosoftHTMLHelpDownloads.asp
[4] git clone git://github.com/vertiginous/rdoc_chm.git
[5] http://github.com/vertiginous/rubyinstaller/download

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:08:03 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:08:03 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] [ANN] rdoc_chm 2.4.0 Released
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908100008l520966a5x515e4ce466fa6f97@mail.gmail.com>

rdoc_chm version 2.4.0 has been released!

* <{RDoc_CHM Project Page}[http://github.com/vertiginous/rdoc_chm]>
* <{RDoc_CHM Bug Tracker}[http://github.com/vertiginous/rdoc_chm/issues]>

A Microsoft Compiled HTML Help generator for {RDoc}[http://rdoc.rubyforge.org/].

Changes:

### 2.4.0 / 2009-08-10

* Two major enhancementsd
  * RDoc 2.4.x compatibility
    - Converted to RHTML templates
    - --opname option was removed form RDoc. RDoc_chm now uses --op
for naming the CHM file
  * Improved table of contents and index.
    - TOC is now split into classes/modules and files
    - index now lists methods followed by their class, i.e. 'to_s (Symbol)'

* Multiple minor enhancements:
  * fixed issue when klass.superclass is nil
  * moved file metadata into documentation div for single column layout
  * moved class metadata into documentation div for single column layout
  * removed method list from index page.  takes a long time to load on
ruby-core and stdlib.
    (plus the data is given in the CHM TOC and index).
  * added classindex and fileindex pages
  * udpated TOC from "Classes" to "Classes/Modules"
  * TOC uses method.pretty_name instead of method.name
  * added hidden img tags to index.rhtml so the html help compiler
will find image files
  * fixes to chm project and contents files
  * Readme corrections

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:34:34 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:34:34 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090810093434.a0583f44.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Very nice.  The only question I have is with the links.  Why the use
> of js, instead of regular anchor tags?  Just curious.  I'm used to
> having the link displayed in my status bar is all.

Good point.  Cleaner html from my perspective is why I like to use js.  I just don't the way things look when a's wrap div's, etc.

That said, I'm going to mod it to go back to using links for multiple reasons including search engine crawlers.  I also think elinks will think there's no links.  While elinks support isn't critical, I just like elinks :)


> > * About is not linking anywhere.
> 
> The content on the home page of the wiki would work well for an "About" page.


Agreed.  I'll make the change.

From hramrach at centrum.cz  Mon Aug 10 09:47:22 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:47:22 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090810093434.a0583f44.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908081752o3ac6d3aaq144d713e3fd6da3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090810093434.a0583f44.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908100647l1d425710p4ecf20d50f6db854@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/10 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
>> Very nice. ?The only question I have is with the links. ?Why the use
>> of js, instead of regular anchor tags? ?Just curious. ?I'm used to
>> having the link displayed in my status bar is all.
>
> Good point. ?Cleaner html from my perspective is why I like to use js. ?I just don't the way things look when a's wrap div's, etc.
>
> That said, I'm going to mod it to go back to using links for multiple reasons including search engine crawlers. ?I also think elinks will think there's no links. ?While elinks support isn't critical, I just like elinks :)

Yes, please.

While JS links may work for some (or even quite a few) there are still
situations when they fail miserably. A site that has some content
besides showing off JavaScript gimmicks should work without
JavaScript.

Thanks

Michal

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:55:44 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:44 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908081913i782b8850h8876f7b3252091b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908081854i1491e9act856ee55d4f20d9fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081859k4857782r98c726f5f1b22143@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908081913i782b8850h8876f7b3252091b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090810095544.60e5df3e.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> > RubyInstaller it is, no need for an aditional dev list.
> >
> > For the time being I'm keeping both -users, -dev and groups active,
> > but sooner than later we would have to decide and disable the others.
> >
> 
> I've looked into turning off the rubyforge mailing lists.  We can mark
> them private for a while, and no new folks will be able to sign up for
> them.  We can send emails out to those lists saying to switch to
> google groups for a month or so, then delete them.

+1 for your private transition plan.

How will archived ML traffic be handled?  FWIW, I just did a very quick search at Nabble and Gmane and didn't find any of our lists.  Is there really anything in the archives we need to be concerned with?

Luis...when would you like us to start using the google groups for our dev discussions rather than this list?  Now? :)

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:21:08 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:21:08 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908081729u569e0207ua3bac60e13b6115d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090810102108.fbda7a0f.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> * The Icon, iso and logo are not correct.

I'll use the png you put on the rubyinstaller google group and make a quick mod to the logo as a prototype for Pavel to look at.  I'll also send Pavel an email and as him to update the graphics appropriately.

I'm not following you on the what's not correct with the Icon and iso.


> * The marketing text about "includes dozens of popular extensions" is
> no longer correct.

Agreed.

What about the .so's and .dll's you put in above and beyond what's in the mswin binary download from ruby-lang.org?  Do these count as "popular extensions" in your mind, or just basic requirements that need to be there in the first place?

 
> * Help should link to community page in the wiki. For the time being
> Help, mailing list and contribute should point to the same page.

OK
 
> * About is not linking anywhere.

Will be changed to link to the homepage of our GitHub wiki

 
> * It is missing the copyright about the design (Pavel Macek) and the
> conversion to HTML done by Jon.

Will put in a placeholder in the footer for review.


> > * I'm for getting rid of the current http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/ page and simply redirecting to the appropriate RubyForge download page once the "Add-on" page is created and the previews files are available on RubyForge. ?Is this a good idea?
> 
> We had 5GB of traffic just for August, I'm getting worried that my
> current hosting provider call me to my cell phone.
> 
> So the move to RubyForge will be with preview2.


I'll work on the links and/or an updated proto download page that links to RubyForge.

Two followup issues:

1) Do we need to touch base with the RubyForge folks on any potential bandwidth issues given the previous popularity of OCI and our expected installer size?

2) Where will we be hosting the 12MB+ DevKit?  Sourceforge?


Jon

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 07:28:46 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:28:46 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>

Hey Jon,

On 08/08/2009 18:57, Jon wrote:
> Take a look at http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/ when you get a chance.

Great job!

Looking good in IE 7 & 8 on Vista. IE6 is almost there - I'm seeing the 
same problem you have already identified. IE5... don't even go there. ;)

Also looking fine on Safari 4, Opera 9 & 10, Chrome and Firefox.

Something that immediately occurred to me: nowhere does it mention that 
this is RubyInstaller *for Windows*. Although pretty obvious to those in 
the community, for beginners - who are a large part of the audience - it 
might not be so obvious.

Perhaps instead of "one-click away" (which I think is a bit inaccurate 
and somewhat redundant these days) it should say "for Windows" instead. 
And then in the intro text say, "This is a self-contained installer for 
Windows that..."

Regarding the HTML, I agree with the points others have made: use of JS 
for links is making my teeth itch. ;) The url attribute in the divs is 
rather unorthadox (it doesn't exist in the XHTML spec). But I see from 
another message that you're already committed changing that. The de 
facto standard for marking-up a nav list is usually as an unordered 
list, something like this:

<ul id="nav">
   <li><a href="foo">About</a></li>
   <li><a href="bar">Download</a></li>
   [...]
</ul>

Wrapping that in a div and applying the id="nav" to the div instead of 
the ul is also a common pattern. I would hazard a guess that Google 
recognises this pattern and indexes accordingly. Not that I think it 
matters right here and now as this page is only temporary, but for the 
main site, we should be using best-practices.

The growing consensus in the web design community is that writing markup 
with HTML 5 semantics in mind is a sensible idea. Think of it as 
convention over configuration for HTML. Here are some articles explaining:

Preparing for HTML5 with Semantic Class Names:
http://bit.ly/17jiQ3

More on developing naming conventions, Microformats and HTML5:
http://bit.ly/38jiFi

Cheatsheet:
http://bit.ly/WXReT

The Rise of HTML5:
http://adactio.com/journal/1540

Again, not that it matters a huge deal now, but I'd wager that 
Google/Bing will be aware of these semantics and weight their indexes 
accordingly in future, so this is definitely an issue for the main site. 
I raise it here mainly for the record and as a recommendation for when 
coding of the main site begins in earnest.

Radiant now uses HAML doesn't it? This should actually make it 
super-easy to write and maintain the HTML.

Charles


From hramrach at centrum.cz  Tue Aug 11 10:28:42 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:28:42 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908110728k3ab56488p172b4ea5123a6498@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

2009/8/5 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
>
>> I'm for Google Groups, and would be happy to get the ball rolling
>> there. ?It would definitely be more accessible to newcomers (easier to
>> find, sign up, and search).
>
> I also agree. ?It's very easy to manage multiple mailing lists/groups and individually set mail notifications all in one simple interface.

How exactly is a Goolgle Group an improvement over a Rubyforge mailing list?

You still have to create an account to join, and I don't even see the
option to join with a non-Gmail address.

Thanks

Michal

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 22:53:48 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:53:48 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Looking good in IE 7 & 8 on Vista. IE6 is almost there - I'm seeing the 
> same problem you have already identified. IE5... don't even go there. ;)
> 
> Also looking fine on Safari 4, Opera 9 & 10, Chrome and Firefox.

Thanks for checking these!

FYI, on my time-stealing list, my remaining TODO items are:

* Clean up IE6 lower icon bar issue
* Check XUbuntu/FF
* Create an Add-on placeholder page
* Tweak the existing Download placeholder page
* Clean up front summary text

 
> Something that immediately occurred to me: nowhere does it mention that 
> this is RubyInstaller *for Windows*. Although pretty obvious to those in 
> the community, for beginners - who are a large part of the audience - it 
> might not be so obvious.
> 
> Perhaps instead of "one-click away" (which I think is a bit inaccurate 
> and somewhat redundant these days) it should say "for Windows" instead. 
> And then in the intro text say, "This is a self-contained installer for 
> Windows that..."

I've had similar thoughts and think your suggestion would be fine as long as we use Windows(R) or Windows(TM) or something similar.  I'll check around a bit, but do you know for sure what should be used?

 
> Regarding the HTML, I agree with the points others have made: use of JS 
> for links is making my teeth itch. ;) The url attribute in the divs is 
> rather unorthadox (it doesn't exist in the XHTML spec).

Would hate for your teeth to itch, except for maybe from a Macallan 25 :)

The url attribute is gone (as well as those W3C validation errors) but as I'm doing quick-n-dirty "HTML/CSS div buttons" and wrapping them in links, we're still failing validation.  That said, things seem to be working in all the major browsers.

I want to try one more thing to get XHTML valid, but I'm not that concerned as I see no need to put an ugly W3C graphic on the page, and it's a placeholder page until the real site comes up.

As Pavel generates the graphic buttons to use for the real site, I'll move them over to our placeholder page.  That said, please let me know if the current "buttons" cause problems in any of the browsers.

Thanks for the nav feedback and I've made the change just a few minutes ago and am using something like the following with some CSS trickery

<div id="navbar">
   <a href="foo">About</a>
   ...
</div>

seems to be working OK and is fewer keystrokes :)  check out the current navbar and see if you have any problems.


> The growing consensus in the web design community is that writing markup 
> with HTML 5 semantics in mind is a sensible idea.

Good links, thanks!

 
> Radiant now uses HAML doesn't it? This should actually make it 
> super-easy to write and maintain the HTML.

FWIW, I'm a fan of Sinatra + HAML + Sequel + Rack.  Would be kinda cool to have done our placeholder site done using Sinatra. :)

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 23:09:01 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:09:01 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] FYI: DevKit renaming
Message-ID: <20090811230901.1ab60ea6.jon.forums@gmail.com>

One of the issues with providing correct information for our http://wiki.github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/gem-list page has been that it's not entirely clear what version of the DevKit is available from http://rubyinstaller.org/downloads/

I've just corrected this by updating the current downloads page as well as renaming the actual 7z download file to "devkit-3.4.5r3-20090411.7z"

Double check when you get a chance and see if things still work.  Ok, don't "really" download the ~13MB file again so we don't hammer any bandwidth limitations with Luis's host :)

Jon 

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 23:42:22 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:42:22 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <a5d587fb0908110728k3ab56488p172b4ea5123a6498@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<a5d587fb0908110728k3ab56488p172b4ea5123a6498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090811234222.7067514d.jon.forums@gmail.com>


> How exactly is a Goolgle Group an improvement over a Rubyforge mailing list?
> 
> You still have to create an account to join, and I don't even see the
> option to join with a non-Gmail address.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michal

For me, Google Groups makes me much more efficient in that I have a single place to go to manage the multiple mailing lists I'm interested in.

It's so easy to sign in, click on "My Groups", see a summary of the new items with a link to the web interface for the group.  I can also go to "Manage my memberships" and change a few things with the most important being simply selecting via a dropdown on how I get notified via email or unsubscribe.

<aside>
I don't often use the group web intfc and primarily use http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/ on my Windows machines to filter these email messages from a single Gmail account into multiple folders.  It's a really, really, really lightweight and cool email client for Windows.  It can even be visually themed via "gtkrc" to look really un-Windows battleship grey like :)
</aside>

Contrast this with the monkey dance that occurs with other lists in which you have to send a message (containing specific "commands" that you've likely forgotten) to a specific "control" mail address (that you've likely forgotten).  More than once, I've forgotten the specifics and had to search for the control mail address and then send it a "help" message to find out commands to do things like temporarily stop receiving emails, etc.  Waste of time.

I find the Google Group experience much more convenient in addition to arguably being more visible, more searchable, etc.

While I don't know how big an issue it is for you to get/use a Google account, I really think that once you use Google Groups you'll find it's more respectful of your time.  Not without its warts of course, but I think a huge step forward.

Jon


From hramrach at centrum.cz  Tue Aug 11 14:52:44 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:52:44 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <fbc5c9680908110924l29c6c3b2n8af25c13909431f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<a5d587fb0908110728k3ab56488p172b4ea5123a6498@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbc5c9680908110924l29c6c3b2n8af25c13909431f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908111152w3e7e296cq5ac43031ddf4ef70@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Matt Hulse <matt.hulse at gmail.com>:
>
>> How exactly is a Goolgle Group an improvement over a Rubyforge mailing
>> list?
>>
>> You still have to create an account to join, and I don't even see the
>> option to join with a non-Gmail address.
>
>
> You need a google account to sign-in but I'm pretty sure you don't have to
> use a google email to interact with the list. ?If I remember correctly once
> you create a google account, you are then asked what email you would like to
> use for the google group.
> There are many projects (including ruby-talk, ruby-dev, and svn to name a
> few) using google groups and each of them allow access with the same google
> account in a convenient location. ?Aside from one account for multiple
> lists, I really like the way the web interface organizes threads. ?Then
> again, that's one of the reasons I prefer gmail so if you don't like gmail
> then you'll probably be better off interacting via your current email. ?With
> the web interface you also get google search of the list instantly for free,
> (I'd imagine this gets the list indexed by google at large much sooner.)
> I'm actually a little surprised that you've never tried out gmail, google
> calendar, or google docs. ?Your missing out IMHO.

I have tried gmail, and I am planning to move away from it again as I
am not particularly satisfied with the experience and alternatives are
available by now.

I cannot tell anything about google calendar but my colleague is using
google docs in a project and the results aren't very good either. It's
a nice cool toy but unfit for serious work.

As for google groups it's only one of many subscribe / archive web
applications available.

If it is so much preferable to what rubyforge has now then perhaps it
is time to file a request for a better mailing list manager.

Thanks

Michal

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 15:28:41 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:28:41 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Making it Easy To Contribute
In-Reply-To: <20090811234222.7067514d.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090804170741.4914494f.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<4A7942F0.9050408@charlesroper.co.uk>	<e9ece6840908050842n64364192x6d35f93e590785e3@mail.gmail.com>	<20090805114953.be429c0e.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<a5d587fb0908110728k3ab56488p172b4ea5123a6498@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090811234222.7067514d.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81C669.7010902@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 12/08/2009 04:42, Jon wrote:
> It's so easy to sign in, click on "My Groups", see a summary of the new items with a link to the web interface for the group.  I can also go to "Manage my memberships" and change a few things with the most important being simply selecting via a dropdown on how I get notified via email or unsubscribe.

This sums it up for me. I'm currently a member of over 25 groups 
(manager of one of them). I have individual email delivered for only 
very few of them, digests for others, and web-interface only for the 
majority because I participate in them only very infrequently. Tracking 
all of these groups individually would be incredibly inconvenient.

Plus there are extra features, such as file upload, wiki pages and 
archives that are so much more sane than the Mailman default.

Regarding requiring a Google Account, you can use any email address when 
you sign up. Here's a screenshot I took after clicking the "Create an 
account" link on the http://groups.google.com page:

http://easycaptures.com/1929331226

Charles

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:12:27 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:12:27 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 12/08/2009 03:53, Jon wrote:
> I've had similar thoughts and think your suggestion would be fine as long as we use Windows(R) or Windows(TM) or something similar.  I'll check around a bit, but do you know for sure what should be used?

It's not necessary to put (R) and (TM) all over the place according to 
the official MS guidelines: http://bit.ly/1967yF

The key parts are, I believe, these:

***

Use Trademark Notices
Include an attribution of Microsoft ownership of the Windows trademark 
in the credit notice section of your documentation or advertisement. 
Follow this format:
     * Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the 
United States and other countries.

***

You may use the Windows trademark in a referential phrase such as "works 
with Windows XP," "runs on Windows 2000," "for use with Windows," "for 
Windows," or "compatible with Windows XP." (If your product works with 
only one version of a Windows product, refer to that version 
specifically.) Maintain a visual distinction between your company and 
product name and the Windows trademark. (Windows should be less prominent.)

***

I think RubyInstaller with a smaller for Windows underneath it fits that 
second guideline quite nicely.

The buttons seem to be working fine in all of the browsers I mentioned 
before. If you really wanted to make the page validate (as an academic 
exercise perhaps ;) ) then I think all you'd need to do is change the 
<div>s that are inside the <a> tags to <span>s and declare 
display:block; on them in the CSS.

Charles

From luislavena at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:56:21 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:56:21 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Charles
Roper<reachme at charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12/08/2009 03:53, Jon wrote:
>>
>> I've had similar thoughts and think your suggestion would be fine as long
>> as we use Windows(R) or Windows(TM) or something similar. ?I'll check around
>> a bit, but do you know for sure what should be used?
>
> It's not necessary to put (R) and (TM) all over the place according to the
> official MS guidelines: http://bit.ly/1967yF
>
> The key parts are, I believe, these:
>
> ***
>
> Use Trademark Notices
> Include an attribution of Microsoft ownership of the Windows trademark in
> the credit notice section of your documentation or advertisement. Follow
> this format:
> ? ?* Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the
> United States and other countries.
>
> ***
>
> You may use the Windows trademark in a referential phrase such as "works
> with Windows XP," "runs on Windows 2000," "for use with Windows," "for
> Windows," or "compatible with Windows XP." (If your product works with only
> one version of a Windows product, refer to that version specifically.)
> Maintain a visual distinction between your company and product name and the
> Windows trademark. (Windows should be less prominent.)
>
> ***
>
> I think RubyInstaller with a smaller for Windows underneath it fits that
> second guideline quite nicely.
>

For the logo I can request the designer the original Adobe Illustrator
files or curves one for someone to hack it.

I'm cool with "for Windows". One-Click away was a legacy statement
instead of "One-Click Ruby Installer", which is also misleading.

> The buttons seem to be working fine in all of the browsers I mentioned
> before. If you really wanted to make the page validate (as an academic
> exercise perhaps ;) ) then I think all you'd need to do is change the <div>s
> that are inside the <a> tags to <span>s and declare display:block; on them
> in the CSS.
>

Yes, divs inside links are invalid.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 17:23:59 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:23:59 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 11/08/2009 21:56, Luis Lavena wrote:
> Yes, divs inside links are invalid.

Interestingly enough, this is actually valid in HTML 5. Sounds like it 
could suffer from some browser rendering weirdness, though. Details here:

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/02/an-event-apart-and-html-5/

Again, Haml makes it easy to output HTML 5, so this could be the way to go.

Charles

From hramrach at centrum.cz  Wed Aug 12 04:14:01 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:14:01 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/12 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
>> Looking good in IE 7 & 8 on Vista. IE6 is almost there - I'm seeing the
>> same problem you have already identified. IE5... don't even go there. ;)
>>
>> Also looking fine on Safari 4, Opera 9 & 10, Chrome and Firefox.
>
> Thanks for checking these!
>
> FYI, on my time-stealing list, my remaining TODO items are:
>
> * Clean up IE6 lower icon bar issue
> * Check XUbuntu/FF
> * Create an Add-on placeholder page
> * Tweak the existing Download placeholder page
> * Clean up front summary text
>

As far as I can tell there is no problem with the page in FF/Debian
and the links are now non-js so there should be no problem with them
either.

BTW noscript was at some point packaged for Ubuntu and recommended or
suggested by Firefox so there might be quite a few people with JS
turned off.

One minor nitpick is the colourful gem - I think the page looked
better with the red one at the top, it was somewhat consistent with
those gems in the box. But if the colourful one is going to be the
official logo I guess it should be there.

Thanks

Michal

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 07:18:47 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:18:47 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120418hb5257ddn25d93e92d364e512@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Guys,

Sorry for my late chime in on this conversation...

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Michal Suchanek<hramrach at centrum.cz> wrote:
> 2009/8/12 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
>>> Looking good in IE 7 & 8 on Vista. IE6 is almost there - I'm seeing the
>>> same problem you have already identified. IE5... don't even go there. ;)
>>>
>>> Also looking fine on Safari 4, Opera 9 & 10, Chrome and Firefox.
>>
>> Thanks for checking these!
>>
>> FYI, on my time-stealing list, my remaining TODO items are:
>>
>> * Clean up IE6 lower icon bar issue
>> * Check XUbuntu/FF
>> * Create an Add-on placeholder page
>> * Tweak the existing Download placeholder page
>> * Clean up front summary text
>>
>
> As far as I can tell there is no problem with the page in FF/Debian
> and the links are now non-js so there should be no problem with them
> either.
>
> BTW noscript was at some point packaged for Ubuntu and recommended or
> suggested by Firefox so there might be quite a few people with JS
> turned off.
>
> One minor nitpick is the colourful gem - I think the page looked
> better with the red one at the top, it was somewhat consistent with
> those gems in the box. But if the colourful one is going to be the
> official logo I guess it should be there.
>

Logo explained here, in case the link got lost:

http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/06/13/rubyinstaller-designs-and-deadline-details/

As commented to Jon, I'm not fond with getting rid of it, as was
designed, by free by Rodolfo Budeguer.

As for the "for Windows" legend, I know was a 5 minutes wrap up,
spacing, mostly white one, is highly important on designs.

I'm fond with the change of moniker and get rid of the misleading
"One-Click", so "for Windows" should follow the exact same spacing
rules that "one-click away" legend has.

This means "for Windows" should only be expanded through "Installer"
word, and not over Ruby safe area.

Apologizes to send a someway convoluted response but work has been
overwhelming the past weeks.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From hramrach at centrum.cz  Wed Aug 12 07:36:19 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:36:19 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120418hb5257ddn25d93e92d364e512@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120418hb5257ddn25d93e92d364e512@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908120436h6411ee1n24b94036e3431576@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/12 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
> Hello Guys,
>
> Sorry for my late chime in on this conversation...
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Michal Suchanek<hramrach at centrum.cz> wrote:
>> 2009/8/12 Jon <jon.forums at gmail.com>:
>>>> Looking good in IE 7 & 8 on Vista. IE6 is almost there - I'm seeing the
>>>> same problem you have already identified. IE5... don't even go there. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Also looking fine on Safari 4, Opera 9 & 10, Chrome and Firefox.
>>>
>>> Thanks for checking these!
>>>
>>> FYI, on my time-stealing list, my remaining TODO items are:
>>>
>>> * Clean up IE6 lower icon bar issue
>>> * Check XUbuntu/FF
>>> * Create an Add-on placeholder page
>>> * Tweak the existing Download placeholder page
>>> * Clean up front summary text
>>>
>>
>> As far as I can tell there is no problem with the page in FF/Debian
>> and the links are now non-js so there should be no problem with them
>> either.
>>
>> BTW noscript was at some point packaged for Ubuntu and recommended or
>> suggested by Firefox so there might be quite a few people with JS
>> turned off.
>>
>> One minor nitpick is the colourful gem - I think the page looked
>> better with the red one at the top, it was somewhat consistent with
>> those gems in the box. But if the colourful one is going to be the
>> official logo I guess it should be there.
>>
>
> Logo explained here, in case the link got lost:
>
> http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/06/13/rubyinstaller-designs-and-deadline-details/
>
> As commented to Jon, I'm not fond with getting rid of it, as was
> designed, by free by Rodolfo Budeguer.
>

As mentioned in the blog post the diamond cut ruby is used mostly,
probably because it is easy to recognize and associate with the ruby
language.

The problem I see with the colourful logo is that the colors do not
match the geometry (or something like that) which makes it somewhat
hard to make out the shape leaving the impression of several colourful
spots and polygons, not that of a compact recognizable shape.

Thanks

Michal

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 07:41:45 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:41:45 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <a5d587fb0908120436h6411ee1n24b94036e3431576@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908120418hb5257ddn25d93e92d364e512@mail.gmail.com> 
	<a5d587fb0908120436h6411ee1n24b94036e3431576@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120441l4a902adewc70fc075e1842327@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Michal Suchanek<hramrach at centrum.cz> wrote:
> [...]
>
> As mentioned in the blog post the diamond cut ruby is used mostly,
> probably because it is easy to recognize and associate with the ruby
> language.

Yes, and I personally got tired of that particular shape, perhaps that
biased the design exploration by Rodolfo.

> The problem I see with the colourful logo is that the colors do not
> match the geometry (or something like that) which makes it somewhat
> hard to make out the shape leaving the impression of several colourful
> spots and polygons, not that of a compact recognizable shape.
>

Windows colors == RubyInstaller colors.

Shape: rectangular faceted cut.

Plain representations sucks. Perhaps I can ask Rodolfo to soften it
and make it clear the shape.

Right now the installer and the ruby executable files uses it, so
change the icon will slow down another release.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From hramrach at centrum.cz  Wed Aug 12 08:00:15 2009
From: hramrach at centrum.cz (Michal Suchanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:00:15 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120441l4a902adewc70fc075e1842327@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<a5d587fb0908120114s3f4a34ffva7cafcfe5954ae14@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120418hb5257ddn25d93e92d364e512@mail.gmail.com>
	<a5d587fb0908120436h6411ee1n24b94036e3431576@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120441l4a902adewc70fc075e1842327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d587fb0908120500wf757b57o85f0a6378d19330b@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/12 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Michal Suchanek<hramrach at centrum.cz> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> As mentioned in the blog post the diamond cut ruby is used mostly,
>> probably because it is easy to recognize and associate with the ruby
>> language.
>
> Yes, and I personally got tired of that particular shape, perhaps that
> biased the design exploration by Rodolfo.
>
>> The problem I see with the colourful logo is that the colors do not
>> match the geometry (or something like that) which makes it somewhat
>> hard to make out the shape leaving the impression of several colourful
>> spots and polygons, not that of a compact recognizable shape.
>>
>
> Windows colors == RubyInstaller colors.
>
> Shape: rectangular faceted cut.
>
> Plain representations sucks. Perhaps I can ask Rodolfo to soften it
> and make it clear the shape.
>
> Right now the installer and the ruby executable files uses it, so
> change the icon will slow down another release.
>

It's a prerelease so I do not see any problem if it has logo that may
changes in the future, especially if it changes only to a clearer
version of the same shape.

Thanks

Michal

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:15:52 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:15:52 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Tk (was: Additional FAQ questions for
	review)
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0907061124r2ad57353i4322e3eb5fb1bafb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907061124r2ad57353i4322e3eb5fb1bafb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908120615y155e32fdtd6723f2533d6af91@mail.gmail.com>

> Please feel free to add the recipe in your fork and I gladly will
> merge it if it works ;-)

I'll hopefully do it soon :)

> The problem with that is that Tk requires ActiveTcl, which cannot be
> automated and cannot be stripped of dependencies.
>
> The alternative requires building ourself the Tcl/Tk component.

Very interesting.  I thought the same as you do until this morning--it
appears that with mswin [the rc2] build I can run tk apps without
having to first install ActiveTcl.  Anybody have an idea why that is
possible?

-r

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:19:08 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:19:08 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Tk (was: Additional FAQ questions for
	review)
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908120615y155e32fdtd6723f2533d6af91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0907061124r2ad57353i4322e3eb5fb1bafb@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908120615y155e32fdtd6723f2533d6af91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120619q31e639c2y5da22e848c0eb496@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> The problem with that is that Tk requires ActiveTcl, which cannot be
>> automated and cannot be stripped of dependencies.
>>
>> The alternative requires building ourself the Tcl/Tk component.
>
> Very interesting. ?I thought the same as you do until this morning--it
> appears that with mswin [the rc2] build I can run tk apps without
> having to first install ActiveTcl. ?Anybody have an idea why that is
> possible?
>

Perhaps Tk libraries are located system-wide.

Use ProcessExplorer over a IRB session after you required 'tk' and it
should list the loaded DLLs, allowing you see the image path where the
file got loaded from.

I haven't bundled Tk with rc2, so is definitely something in your system.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:51:44 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:51:44 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> On 11/08/2009 21:56, Luis Lavena wrote:
> > Yes, divs inside links are invalid.
> 
> Interestingly enough, this is actually valid in HTML 5. Sounds like it 
> could suffer from some browser rendering weirdness, though. Details here:
> 
> http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/02/an-event-apart-and-html-5/

The W3C Validator Wizard wants to ban the page for the ugly divs-inside-links heresy :)

But...

These HTML/CSS buttons are no more than a short-term hack to help get us a quick, usable, and decent looking placeholder page while Pavel develops the really cool site.  I plan to back fill them with Pavel's real buttons when they're available.

As ugly and as uncompliant as they are, while I'm not tied to them in any way, if they work across our browsers of interest, let's keep them and move on to completing the other tasks on the TODO list.

Jon


From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:53:35 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:53:35 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120653y4b385ce6s68c7eebac0b8c093@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/08/2009 21:56, Luis Lavena wrote:
>> > Yes, divs inside links are invalid.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, this is actually valid in HTML 5. Sounds like it
>> could suffer from some browser rendering weirdness, though. Details here:
>>
>> http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/02/an-event-apart-and-html-5/
>
> The W3C Validator Wizard wants to ban the page for the ugly divs-inside-links heresy :)
>
> But...
>
> These HTML/CSS buttons are no more than a short-term hack to help get us a quick, usable, and decent looking placeholder page while Pavel develops the really cool site. ?I plan to back fill them with Pavel's real buttons when they're available.
>
> As ugly and as uncompliant as they are, while I'm not tied to them in any way, if they work across our browsers of interest, let's keep them and move on to completing the other tasks on the TODO list.
>

Sounds good, let's not turn this into a bike shed conversation.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:55:26 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:55:26 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> > It's not necessary to put (R) and (TM) all over the place according to the
> > official MS guidelines: http://bit.ly/1967yF
> >
> 
> I'm cool with "for Windows". One-Click away was a legacy statement
> instead of "One-Click Ruby Installer", which is also misleading.

Are we OK with the current incarnation of the "for Windows" logo and text?

Or would you like me to shrink the size of the "for Windows" and change to "for Windows(R)"?

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:58:05 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:58:05 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It's not necessary to put (R) and (TM) all over the place according to the
>> > official MS guidelines: http://bit.ly/1967yF
>> >
>>
>> I'm cool with "for Windows". One-Click away was a legacy statement
>> instead of "One-Click Ruby Installer", which is also misleading.
>
> Are we OK with the current incarnation of the "for Windows" logo and text?
>

Small font, if possible to match font thickness that previous
"one-click away" legend had.

> Or would you like me to shrink the size of the "for Windows" and change to "for Windows(R)"?

No need for (R), as previous mentioned here, and shrink it in size, as
commented on another message.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:09:48 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:09:48 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Nice article and followup opportunity
Message-ID: <20090812220948.5674f71b.jon.forums@gmail.com>

This is old news by now

http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/08/ruby-installer

but what's great about this placement on a prominent site is that it gives us an opportunity to do a high profile on InfoQ.  Let's manage the attention we're getting!

I propose we give target having the following issues completed within 1 week (no longer than 2) and try to work a followup to the above article and an ANN to ruby-talk:


* [LUIS] Move existing preview releases to RubyForge download page

* [LUIS, GORDON] Create and post preview2 w/CHM's release (7z at a minimum if can't do an installer) on RubyForge

* [JON] Complete all mods to the placeholder rubyinstaller.org page

* [LUIS] Make a final decision as to what is our "primary" mailing list (see http://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller/browse_thread/thread/b9ffe0d2334317f5) and update site/wiki appropriately


Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:14:48 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:14:48 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120653y4b385ce6s68c7eebac0b8c093@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120653y4b385ce6s68c7eebac0b8c093@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090812221448.b040a923.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Sounds good, let's not turn this into a bike shed conversation.

There's 0% chance of bike shedding on this one.

Gordon and Michal gave great and direct (very important to be direct and clear in my mind) feedback to help make the tradeoff decisions.

I think we're done on this one unless there's a need to change for Windows trademark concerns.

Jon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:15:54 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:15:54 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Nice article and followup opportunity
In-Reply-To: <20090812220948.5674f71b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090812220948.5674f71b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120715h3b43e8e1lfb891c80bcdda6da@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>
> * [LUIS] Move existing preview releases to RubyForge download page
>

dunno of existing, working on preview2 the past days.

> * [LUIS, GORDON] Create and post preview2 w/CHM's release (7z at a minimum if can't do an installer) on RubyForge
>

Integrated the changes form Gordon locally, working on getting
everything smooth here.

Also, waiting for Comodo to deliver the certificate to sign the installers.

> * [LUIS] Make a final decision as to what is our "primary" mailing list (see http://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller/browse_thread/thread/b9ffe0d2334317f5) and update site/wiki appropriately
>

Is just an small update, for me either list works, but there was a
negative feedback on the move, so, would like to hear votes.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:58:19 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:58:19 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Small font, if possible to match font thickness that previous
> "one-click away" legend had.

Done.

The Gimp image editing store is open for about another 30 minutes.  Let me know if you'd like any changes.

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:01:22 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:01:22 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Small font, if possible to match font thickness that previous
>> "one-click away" legend had.
>
> Done.
>
> The Gimp image editing store is open for about another 30 minutes. ?Let me know if you'd like any changes.

Enough bugging you with that, let's move forward :D

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 23:41:03 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:41:03 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090812234103.dd958319.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> > The Gimp image editing store is open for about another 30 minutes. ?Let me know if you'd like any changes.
> 
> Enough bugging you with that, let's move forward :D

Branding an look-and-feel is SO important that we should get it exactly how you want it.

I have no problem making the mods until you think it's perfect.  So if you want any tweaks such as moving by a few pixels, sizing, color, font (currently uses Tahoma Bold) etc. let me know.  

From luislavena at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:45:58 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:45:58 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
	feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090812234103.dd958319.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com> 
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090812234103.dd958319.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908120845w959b91du224770d0cd963ef4@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The Gimp image editing store is open for about another 30 minutes. ?Let me know if you'd like any changes.
>>
>> Enough bugging you with that, let's move forward :D
>
> Branding an look-and-feel is SO important that we should get it exactly how you want it.
>
> I have no problem making the mods until you think it's perfect. ?So if you want any tweaks such as moving by a few pixels, sizing, color, font (currently uses Tahoma Bold) etc. let me know.

Logos can be adjusted over time, even Mozilla has done it, so we can
survive with what we have for now.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 02:15:07 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:15:07 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] CHM Task and integration
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908122315q7e69d489we757fc8aa19fb932@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Guys,

While waiting for the signing certificates to arrive, went ahead and
merged Gordon's CHM tasks into master.

Gordon: amazing work!

Did some tweaks to avoid errors popping during build and double check
if needed tools are installed, hope you don't mind.

Now, I'm seeing the following issue:

http://pastie.org/582314

Seems that is trying to copy images folder for README.chm, or
something like that.

Gordon, would you mind take a look? Please fix it directly over
oneclick repository, you have commit rights.

Going to push The Book of Ruby commits once I enter the contributors
and attributions files.

Everybody else: please submit your link candidates to "Documentation"
section at GitHub:

http://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller/issues

And vote which one should be there.

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 03:54:08 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:54:08 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>	<4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83C6A0.1090702@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 13/08/2009 02:51, Jon wrote:
>> On 11/08/2009 21:56, Luis Lavena wrote:
>>> Yes, divs inside links are invalid.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, this is actually valid in HTML 5. Sounds like it
>> could suffer from some browser rendering weirdness, though. Details here:
>>
>> http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/02/an-event-apart-and-html-5/
>
> These HTML/CSS buttons are no more than a short-term hack to help get us a quick, usable, and decent looking placeholder page while Pavel develops the really cool site.  I plan to back fill them with Pavel's real buttons when they're available.

Yes, understood. I raised the fact that block-level element inside links 
are actually now perfectly valid in HTML 5 because I thought it was 
interesting in light of our discussion, rather than as a suggestion you 
should be implementing it. :)

I do, however, think it would be a good idea to use HTML 5 for the main 
site.

I can help with that if you like?

Charles

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 04:08:38 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:08:38 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120845w959b91du224770d0cd963ef4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812234103.dd958319.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120845w959b91du224770d0cd963ef4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83CA06.1020706@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 12/08/2009 16:45, Luis Lavena wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Branding an look-and-feel is SO important that we should get it exactly how you want it.
>>
>> I have no problem making the mods until you think it's perfect.  So if you want any tweaks such as moving by a few pixels, sizing, color, font (currently uses Tahoma Bold) etc. let me know.
>
> Logos can be adjusted over time, even Mozilla has done it, so we can
> survive with what we have for now.

Jon/Luis,

The main font in the logo is something very close to Fruitger, which I 
have installed on my system. If you send me the original artwork, I can 
tweak it for you. Will only take 5 mins.

Charles


From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 04:28:54 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:28:54 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Nice article and followup opportunity
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908120715h3b43e8e1lfb891c80bcdda6da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090812220948.5674f71b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120715h3b43e8e1lfb891c80bcdda6da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83CEC6.7050809@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 12/08/2009 15:15, Luis Lavena wrote:
>> * [LUIS] Make a final decision as to what is our "primary" mailing list (seehttp://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller/browse_thread/thread/b9ffe0d2334317f5) and update site/wiki appropriately
>> >
> Is just an small update, for me either list works, but there was a
> negative feedback on the move, so, would like to hear votes.

Objectively speaking, I don't see a downside to using Google Groups. For 
those of us who prefer it because it makes it easier to manage multiple 
groups, it's a win. For those who would use it only for subscribing to 
the Ruby Installer group, it's no different from using this current 
group. You can use any email address when you sign up for a Google 
Account; you're not required to use a Gmail address, nor are you 
required to use any other Google service.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Charles

Charles

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 07:05:42 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:05:42 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] unable to load .so files in windows if full
	path given
Message-ID: <e880bd570908130405q697cc7cg347c5367f24abb69@mail.gmail.com>

Noticed this the other day
require "\\something \\somename"
where \something\somename.so exists
in windows doesn't load it right.
Just thought I'd point it out in case anyone else runs into it.
Thanks!
-r

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:43:04 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:43:04 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <4A83C6A0.1090702@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81E16F.2070409@charlesroper.co.uk>
	<20090812215144.89c607c0.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A83C6A0.1090702@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090813094304.52c9146e.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Yes, understood. I raised the fact that block-level element inside links 
> are actually now perfectly valid in HTML 5 because I thought it was 
> interesting in light of our discussion, rather than as a suggestion you 
> should be implementing it. :)

I'm glad you raised the issues and appreciate the links you provided as I haven't been paying that much attention to HTML 5 recently.  I've always been a fan of Eric Meyer too. Thanks.


> I do, however, think it would be a good idea to use HTML 5 for the main 
> site.
> 
> I can help with that if you like?
> 
> Charles

I've passed this along to Pavel who's doing the real site.

I think for our little placeholder site we're OK with XHTML as these pages go away when Pavel's finished.  I've got just a bit more I want to do (Add-ons page primarily) and them I'm done with the develop-in-10-minute-blocks-when-you-find-the-time :)

Thanks again for taking the time to double check the pages/HTML/CSS as well as your feedback.

Jon

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:50:21 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:50:21 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Nice article and followup opportunity
In-Reply-To: <4A83CEC6.7050809@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090812220948.5674f71b.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120715h3b43e8e1lfb891c80bcdda6da@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A83CEC6.7050809@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090813095021.8aa9c108.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> Objectively speaking, I don't see a downside to using Google Groups.
> [...] 
> Seems like a no-brainer to me.
> 
> Charles

+1

>From the interesting timing category, the following was also in my inbox this morning.

> From: Wayne Meissner <wmeissner at gmail.com>
> To: dev at ruby-ffi.kenai.com, users at ruby-ffi.kenai.com
> Reply-To: dev at ruby-ffi.kenai.com
> Subject: [ruby-ffi] Shutting down mailing lists
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:45:51 +1000
>
> The dev at ruby-ffi.kenai.com and users at ruby-ffi.kenai.com mailing lists
> (along with the rest of the ruby-ffi kenai project) are being
> shutdown.  Instead, there is now a google group for all ruby-ffi
> discussion at http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-ffi

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 10:51:17 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:51:17 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] rubyinstaller.org placeholder page needs
 feedback
In-Reply-To: <4A83CA06.1020706@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <20090808135744.62220ae5.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A8155EE.20906@charlesroper.co.uk>	<20090811225348.8e457226.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<4A81D0AB.3080603@charlesroper.co.uk>	<71166b3b0908111356k4fa978bcq4155194a5aaa7c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812215526.4726e839.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<71166b3b0908120658s748e13q246fccdec8bfc682@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812225819.fdea8b2b.jon.forums@gmail.com>	<71166b3b0908120801o56985c5dofecc80fdd51f999c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090812234103.dd958319.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908120845w959b91du224770d0cd963ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A83CA06.1020706@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A842865.8010206@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 13/08/2009 09:08, Charles Roper wrote:
> The main font in the logo is something very close to Fruitger

That should of course be "Frutiger".

Charles

From luislavena at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 01:07:34 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:07:34 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] It is time for preview2
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com>

Ok Guys,

Comodo is driving me crazy with documentation, so seems that signed
installers would have to wait for next release (or may final, who
knows)

I have updated the TODO with latest changes:

http://gist.github.com/151832

To summarize:

- Need to add Ruby license terms to License Agreement
- Make room for The Book of Ruby terms in the License Agreement
- RubyInstaller license agreements and LICENSE file bundled in the installer.
- Bundle the documentation in the installer
- Bundle the book into the installer

I'm right now about to test and push the Book of Ruby recipe and
changes. Also removing some cruft and left overs of GNU Readline.

This is what I need from you guys:

- Website placeholder be live the soonest as possible
- Addon page state the DevKit download and instructions on INSTALL file
- Candidates for testing installers on different OS combinations.

The last point is crucial, since we are targeting Windows 2000 and
greater, the installers needs to work without admin rights and even on
x64 platforms.

Will send a follow up once I'm done with the points listed above.

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 10:37:44 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:37:44 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] It is time for preview2
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090814103744.a9c73be6.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> I have updated the TODO with latest changes:
> 
> http://gist.github.com/151832

What about a CONTRIBUTORS file for attributions for people like Huw?

I just did a repo pull and got the following so I can't tell if CONTRIBUTIONS was added or you've put attributions in README.

>From git://github.com/oneclick/rubyinstaller
   98cffff..b1c0a6f  master     -> origin/master
Updating 98cffff..b1c0a6f
error: Entry 'recipes/tools/docs.rake' not uptodate. Cannot merge.


> - Website placeholder be live the soonest as possible

I want to nuke this http://rubyinstaller.org/proto/download.html page if you're going to add preview2 to RubyForge.  Are you still planning to deploy all installers to RubyForge?


> - Addon page state the DevKit download and instructions on INSTALL file

The monkey on my back is chattering the same thing.  Hope to have a few minutes late tonight to put up some content.


> - Candidates for testing installers on different OS combinations.

I've got a cranky Win2K test system so I'll try things out there.

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:54:09 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:54:09 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] It is time for preview2
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090814125409.789b4834.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> - Addon page state the DevKit download and instructions on INSTALL file

Where will the ~13MB DevKit be hosted once preview2 is available?

If it's the current location, are you OK regarding bandwidth with your hoster?

Just curious as we're likely going to want to time the preview2 release with ANN on ruby-list, ruby-core, and...hopefully...a followup placement with InfoQ, http://antoniocangiano.com/ and others.

Jon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:00:57 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:00:57 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] RubyInstaller: Archiving of RubyForge mailing
	lists and switch to Google Groups
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908141500n6d81e884ua8db81493ba1218a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody.

Aiming to increase exposition of RubyInstaller project (known as
One-Click Ruby Installer for Windows), as developers and users around
it we decided to move to Google Groups functionality.

http://groups.google.com/group/rubyinstaller

While this may be a bold move and there would be some detractors, we
considered the impact and the usage of the list.

A few points:

* No more multiple mailing lists.

While development has become actively noisy lately we are still open
and fond to questions of newcomers and people wanting to contribute.

* No user is going to be automatically migrated from RubyForge lists
to Google ones.

The users that want to join can go directly to above URL and join
manually. Automatic migrations are a privacy concern and there are lot
of users inactive on the list.

* RubyForge lists are not going to disappear, but no longer actively used.

We are going to keep those accessible while joining and posting of it
is discouraged. If you want to start a new topic, please do in the
Google Groups above indicated.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 00:13:59 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:13:59 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] It is time for preview2
In-Reply-To: <85b91c640908141834q3f9211f4kc6eeb485b37d3ca7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908132207l11162ca9kb2b0236e7993c490@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090814125409.789b4834.jon.forums@gmail.com>
	<85b91c640908141834q3f9211f4kc6eeb485b37d3ca7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908142113v4f0f21e1h41cfdca598db8ea@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/14 phoenix <wujunchen at gmail.com>:
> maybe it can be download through bt torrent?
>

The DevKit will be 13MB and the Installer will be 10MB final, so
torrent will be over complex for such small files.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:25:15 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:25:15 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] VC2010 builds
Message-ID: <e880bd570908170625t30d40d3csa3c8bae417d55a58@mail.gmail.com>

I keep hearing people say "oh ruby would be even faster if it used a
more modern compiler and/or version of msvcrt"

Does anybody have some builds that can substantiate this that they can
make available?
Anybody know what compiler is used to build the binaries here:
ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/binaries/mswin32/ruby-1.9.1-p0-i386-mswin32.zip
?


I'm just always curious to understand speed differences [my first
question being "if they are faster, is it because they use profile
guided optimization, or is it just the newer version of msvcrt?"]
Thanks.
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:10:21 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:10:21 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] [ANN] release: a "which" command written in
	ruby--very useful for windows users at least
Message-ID: <e880bd570908171010u6d77a4f3m7bcc31bf1e185839@mail.gmail.com>

Announcing the release of "ruby which"[1]

README:
Ruby-which is the linux "which" command re-written in ruby [and
windows-friendly].

-- An executable locator (which command) for windows that actually works!

There seems to be a lack of a "which" command for windows that
actually work--they sometimes skip batch files entirely [batch file?
what's that?] or don't list extensions, leaving you in doubt.  Despite
running "which yyy" you never know what you're really running when you
next run yyy in the command line--is it yyy.exe or some other yyy.bat
that wasn't reported by "which"?

Try it--you might really like it.

To install:

   C:\>gem install rogerdpack-whichr

   C:\>whichr executable_name_here [extension can be included, but is optional]

   usage:

   C:\>whichr ruby
   higher in the list will be executed first
   ./ruby.bat
   C:/Ruby/bin/ruby.exe
   c:/cygwin/bin/ruby.exe

Feedback welcome rogerdpack on github/gmail
[1] not to be confused with this
witch...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGm7DLMhQxo


Also Related: http://github.com/Pistos/ruby-which -- this library
discovers the location of installed ruby libraries, i.e. which gem
folder they're in
"C:\>rwhich ruby-which
c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1/gems/Pistos-ruby-which-0.5.3/lib/ruby-which.rb"

Enjoy.
-r

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:51:12 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:51:12 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] Reminder: all new posts are moderated
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908172051w5cf04d4lfaf4c000c4e5f896@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

In the aim to keep this group clean of the growing rate of spam over
Google Groups all new messages are moderated the first time.

I just approved all the pending one, was enjoying my holiday here in
Argentina and preparing for my upcoming business trip.

Apologizes.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:59:11 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:59:11 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] VC2010 builds
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908170625t30d40d3csa3c8bae417d55a58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908170625t30d40d3csa3c8bae417d55a58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908172059rd32400en511ada2cba6c6aed@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> I keep hearing people say "oh ruby would be even faster if it used a
> more modern compiler and/or version of msvcrt"
>

Me too, I've already proven back in 2008, that out of the box
compilation with VS2008 is not faster.

> Does anybody have some builds that can substantiate this that they can
> make available?
> Anybody know what compiler is used to build the binaries here:
> ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/binaries/mswin32/ruby-1.9.1-p0-i386-mswin32.zip
> ?

VC6 with sh scripts (on top of cygwin I believe)

>
> I'm just always curious to understand speed differences [my first
> question being "if they are faster, is it because they use profile
> guided optimization, or is it just the newer version of msvcrt?"]
> Thanks.
> -r

The new version fot he CRT is not that is faster or slower, it offer
"safer" CRt functions for string processing and other stuff, the CRT
speed should not be the impact here.

Of course: code optimization is crucial in the CRT, but is not eh bottleneck.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 11:36:52 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:36:52 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next days
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everybody,

Is not that I'm important to anyone or that my silence will raise the
fllod _why disappearing trick did.

Anyhow, wanted to let you know that I'll be traveling a lot the next
few days and will take me longer to get back to anyone.

There are some pending things in my list that I would try to get done:

* Signed installers (got the cert)
* Integration of proper-openssl-2 branch.

While first one would be easy, it will have no impact until next
release, which perhaps is not going to happen soon.

The second one is more important, since it will solve the potential
conflicts we could have dealing with PostgreSQL libraries in the PATH.

I would appreciate if anyone can take a look to snaury fork and see
how it works or if something breaks :-D
(guess is on master branch now?)

Suffer from OCD is hard to overcome, so would like you guys help me out on it :)

Thanks in advance and will still checking the group while traveling,
but not so intensive as is now :(

Cheers!
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From snaury at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:01:11 2009
From: snaury at gmail.com (Alexey Borzenkov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:01:11 +0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next
	days
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would appreciate if anyone can take a look to snaury fork and see
> how it works or if something breaks :-D
> (guess is on master branch now?)

No, it's still a separate proper-openssl-2 branch.

I don't quite like what I had to do in rake/extracttask.rb. While cp_r
does the job, unlike mv it's pretty slow. I have this:
http://git.kitsu.ru/mine/df-ruby.git?a=blob;f=lib/df/fileutils.rb;h=f81dcb36b5e546d99839238b75358cd1d03a4a93;hb=be039169bbf35145d87d55cdb58c8cf58d5711d5,
but it patches FileUtils, which might be considered bad. :-/ Or maybe
we could do a simpler version of that, which doesn't have to deal with
lists of sources, etc.

Or, maybe if we kept tags somewhere (like .mingw.extracted,
.msys.extracted, etc.), build system wouldn't need to reextract
everything every time... and the issue would be almost moot.

Btw, using :force => true with FileUtils.mv is a really bad idea. All
it does is ignores any errors, and most likely that's not what you
want. I've been bitten many times by that, when it couldn't move
something and just silently succeeded (e.g. immediately after ruby is
unpacked Kaspersky goes inspecting it, and mv fails O.o which causes
only much later in the build process, when directory ext or something
else is missing).

From luislavena at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:13:07 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:13:07 -0300
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next
	days
In-Reply-To: <e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908210913y3089c6ebgd496b4da86a7d01c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Alexey Borzenkov<snaury at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would appreciate if anyone can take a look to snaury fork and see
>> how it works or if something breaks :-D
>> (guess is on master branch now?)
>
> No, it's still a separate proper-openssl-2 branch.
>

Cool.

> I don't quite like what I had to do in rake/extracttask.rb. While cp_r
> does the job, unlike mv it's pretty slow. I have this:
> http://git.kitsu.ru/mine/df-ruby.git?a=blob;f=lib/df/fileutils.rb;h=f81dcb36b5e546d99839238b75358cd1d03a4a93;hb=be039169bbf35145d87d55cdb58c8cf58d5711d5,
> but it patches FileUtils, which might be considered bad. :-/ Or maybe
> we could do a simpler version of that, which doesn't have to deal with
> lists of sources, etc.
>
> Or, maybe if we kept tags somewhere (like .mingw.extracted,
> .msys.extracted, etc.), build system wouldn't need to reextract
> everything every time... and the issue would be almost moot.
>

What needs to be done is complete the new DSL branch, but I has been
so busy that commit time to it would be impossible.

The new format for recipes uses checkpoint files for the tasks and
treat packages individually, so if a source /origin for a file
download changed: it will download the files and extract them, since
the previous checkpoint file got invalidated.

> Btw, using :force => true with FileUtils.mv is a really bad idea. All
> it does is ignores any errors, and most likely that's not what you
> want. I've been bitten many times by that, when it couldn't move
> something and just silently succeeded (e.g. immediately after ruby is
> unpacked Kaspersky goes inspecting it, and mv fails O.o which causes
> only much later in the build process, when directory ext or something
> else is missing).

I don't remember the reasoning behind it actually, was over the Bazaar
repo, and don't have it handy at work's computer.

But I agree, it is bad, but got the job done at that time.

I'm going to send my proposal for the recipe to the list next week,
and would love your input and others in the list.

Once we settle on the format, I'm going to put the initial specs and
focus in converting existing messy rake task to something cleaner in a
recipe way.

Me sitting at the airport, having a sprite with ice thanks you for
your continuos feedback :)

Cheers!
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From snaury at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:55:35 2009
From: snaury at gmail.com (Alexey Borzenkov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:55:35 +0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next
	days
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908210913y3089c6ebgd496b4da86a7d01c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com>
	<e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908210913y3089c6ebgd496b4da86a7d01c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2480c70908210955x1e8292b2na3d9d83548a349a6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> What needs to be done is complete the new DSL branch, but I has been
> so busy that commit time to it would be impossible.
>
> The new format for recipes uses checkpoint files for the tasks and
> treat packages individually, so if a source /origin for a file
> download changed: it will download the files and extract them, since
> the previous checkpoint file got invalidated.

What I'd also like to see is checksum checking for download tasks.
Right now checksums are not checked, so you can never be sure that you
downloaded what you originally planned on downloading. Worse, when I
first tried building it, my connection somehow dropped in the middle
and one of msys-related files was only partially downloaded. Yet
somehow download task was thinking it succeeded and later extracting
it obviously failed (so I had to delete the corrupted file to
continue). Situations like this could be caught earlier if there was
checksum checking.

>> Btw, using :force => true with FileUtils.mv is a really bad idea. All
>> it does is ignores any errors, and most likely that's not what you
>> want. I've been bitten many times by that, when it couldn't move
>> something and just silently succeeded (e.g. immediately after ruby is
>> unpacked Kaspersky goes inspecting it, and mv fails O.o which causes
>> only much later in the build process, when directory ext or something
>> else is missing).
> I don't remember the reasoning behind it actually, was over the Bazaar
> repo, and don't have it handy at work's computer.

Well, I can only guess that you might have been doing it because it
currently extracts stuff over and over again every time. And when
extracting ruby, for example, the moving out phase was obviously
failing, because target directories already exist.

I just pushed this change that implements mv_r without hacking FileUtils:

http://github.com/snaury/rubyinstaller/commit/397a4b61ed507aef06ed9e0591302428828c126c

Somehow it even feels more stable than my hackish FileUtils version.

> But I agree, it is bad, but got the job done at that time.
>
> I'm going to send my proposal for the recipe to the list next week,
> and would love your input and others in the list.
>
> Once we settle on the format, I'm going to put the initial specs and
> focus in converting existing messy rake task to something cleaner in a
> recipe way.

Cool, can't wait for that! ;)

> Me sitting at the airport, having a sprite with ice thanks you for
> your continuos feedback :)
>
> Cheers!

Have a nice trip! :p

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:16:21 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:16:21 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] gem install option
Message-ID: <e880bd570908241016q6594e3b7r5207646cc56f8664@mail.gmail.com>

Since some users want .rb files associated with ruby.exe, and want
ruby in the path by default, maybe we should make a gem

C:\>gem install ruby_setup
C:\>ruby_setup install_current_ruby # adds ruby.exe to path, etc.
thoughts?
-r

From gthiesfeld at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:20:39 2009
From: gthiesfeld at gmail.com (Gordon Thiesfeld)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:20:39 -0500
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] gem install option
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908241016q6594e3b7r5207646cc56f8664@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908241016q6594e3b7r5207646cc56f8664@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9ece6840908241020y77a620e4gdd8288f5ef8071b3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since some users want .rb files associated with ruby.exe, and want
> ruby in the path by default, maybe we should make a gem
>
> C:\>gem install ruby_setup
> C:\>ruby_setup install_current_ruby # adds ruby.exe to path, etc.
> thoughts?
> -r

This will eventually be a part of pik.  I'm also working on adding
these features to the installer in my fork.

> _______________________________________________
> Rubyinstaller-devel mailing list
> Rubyinstaller-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rubyinstaller-devel
>

From jon.forums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:38:04 2009
From: jon.forums at gmail.com (Jon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:38:04 -0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] gem install option
In-Reply-To: <e9ece6840908241020y77a620e4gdd8288f5ef8071b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908241016q6594e3b7r5207646cc56f8664@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9ece6840908241020y77a620e4gdd8288f5ef8071b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090824133804.fde7d6fe.jon.forums@gmail.com>

> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Since some users want .rb files associated with ruby.exe, and want
> > ruby in the path by default, maybe we should make a gem
> >
> > C:\>gem install ruby_setup
> > C:\>ruby_setup install_current_ruby # adds ruby.exe to path, etc.
> > thoughts?
> > -r
> 
> This will eventually be a part of pik.  I'm also working on adding
> these features to the installer in my fork.

+1 for adding both to the installer as long as it's easy to opt out via gui checkboxs or something similar.

should the path info be appended or suffixed to the existing path?  if optional, i think appending new path info is appropriate.

jon

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:20:12 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:20:12 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] gem install option
In-Reply-To: <20090824133804.fde7d6fe.jon.forums@gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908241016q6594e3b7r5207646cc56f8664@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e9ece6840908241020y77a620e4gdd8288f5ef8071b3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090824133804.fde7d6fe.jon.forums@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908241320m5798f983wa2206a6cec7b7db5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Jon<jon.forums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Since some users want .rb files associated with ruby.exe, and want
>> > ruby in the path by default, maybe we should make a gem
>> >
>> > C:\>gem install ruby_setup
>> > C:\>ruby_setup install_current_ruby # adds ruby.exe to path, etc.
>> > thoughts?
>> > -r
>>
>> This will eventually be a part of pik. ?I'm also working on adding
>> these features to the installer in my fork.
>
> +1 for adding both to the installer as long as it's easy to opt out via gui checkboxs or something similar.
>

As long the option works at user or system level (so the change is to
user account or system-wide when privileges are present).

> should the path info be appended or suffixed to the existing path? ?if optional, i think appending new path info is appropriate.

Prepend the PATH, not append, if not, we are going to introduce a bug
due mismatched logic, the prompt with Ruby shortcut prepends the PATH
due a bug reported to RubyForge.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:06:15 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:06:15 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next
	days
In-Reply-To: <e2480c70908210955x1e8292b2na3d9d83548a349a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908210913y3089c6ebgd496b4da86a7d01c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e2480c70908210955x1e8292b2na3d9d83548a349a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908241406y2755a036g5851bfb29a6493b2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Alexey Borzenkov<snaury at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What needs to be done is complete the new DSL branch, but I has been
>> so busy that commit time to it would be impossible.
>>
>> The new format for recipes uses checkpoint files for the tasks and
>> treat packages individually, so if a source /origin for a file
>> download changed: it will download the files and extract them, since
>> the previous checkpoint file got invalidated.
>
> What I'd also like to see is checksum checking for download tasks.
> Right now checksums are not checked, so you can never be sure that you
> downloaded what you originally planned on downloading. Worse, when I
> first tried building it, my connection somehow dropped in the middle
> and one of msys-related files was only partially downloaded. Yet
> somehow download task was thinking it succeeded and later extracting
> it obviously failed (so I had to delete the corrupted file to
> continue). Situations like this could be caught earlier if there was
> checksum checking.
>

I was considering the same, it is a flaw of the implementation that I
want to get fixed with the DSL implemention.

Please submit a Feature request with Build recipes as category at
RubyForge, so I keep track of it.

>>> Btw, using :force => true with FileUtils.mv is a really bad idea. All
>>> it does is ignores any errors, and most likely that's not what you
>>> want. I've been bitten many times by that, when it couldn't move
>>> something and just silently succeeded (e.g. immediately after ruby is
>>> unpacked Kaspersky goes inspecting it, and mv fails O.o which causes
>>> only much later in the build process, when directory ext or something
>>> else is missing).
>> I don't remember the reasoning behind it actually, was over the Bazaar
>> repo, and don't have it handy at work's computer.
>
> Well, I can only guess that you might have been doing it because it
> currently extracts stuff over and over again every time. And when
> extracting ruby, for example, the moving out phase was obviously
> failing, because target directories already exist.
>
> I just pushed this change that implements mv_r without hacking FileUtils:
>
> http://github.com/snaury/rubyinstaller/commit/397a4b61ed507aef06ed9e0591302428828c126c
>
> Somehow it even feels more stable than my hackish FileUtils version.
>

Please test it from scratch and with previous checked out tools. Once
it works as you expected, send me the pull request for me to review
it.

Then, will merge those changes and give you commit rights, so no
longer need to work on your fork ;)

Cheers,

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From snaury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:25:26 2009
From: snaury at gmail.com (Alexey Borzenkov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:25:26 +0400
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] OT: FYI - Will be partially away the next
	days
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0908241406y2755a036g5851bfb29a6493b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71166b3b0908210836q60b4cac6o982ab1cadd744f77@mail.gmail.com>
	<e2480c70908210901p21bc5a91j6a9d9be31521c38f@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908210913y3089c6ebgd496b4da86a7d01c@mail.gmail.com>
	<e2480c70908210955x1e8292b2na3d9d83548a349a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0908241406y2755a036g5851bfb29a6493b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2480c70908251225s14e1b158u350d357bd143acd1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Luis Lavena<luislavena at gmail.com> wrote:
> Please test it from scratch and with previous checked out tools. Once
> it works as you expected, send me the pull request for me to review
> it.

Yes, it still works, just like four days ago when I pushed it. ;) I
added one new commit though, changing the way patch is called (-d
instead of cd with relative path calculation), nothing major.

> Then, will merge those changes and give you commit rights, so no
> longer need to work on your fork ;)

Please don't, I prefer working on forks: more peer review, more The
Git Way, yadda yadda yadda.

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:51:14 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:51:14 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] scite
Message-ID: <e880bd570908270951s7101c72at6e46de900e02fc7b@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone think it would be worth it to package scite by itself [i.e.
some way for mingw users to use scite if desired]?
Thoughts?
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:13:53 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:13:53 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] scite
In-Reply-To: <5a95d2680908271009j73565c63s8c1893b5e631bb13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908270951s7101c72at6e46de900e02fc7b@mail.gmail.com>
	<5a95d2680908271009j73565c63s8c1893b5e631bb13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e880bd570908290713w5e8b1c3el5d9d4e6c3b410dd7@mail.gmail.com>

> When you say scite, do you mean the all-in-one Sc1 (sc201.exe currently
> ~550K) executable?
>
> I can't remember whether the old 1.8.6p26 installer included it or not, but
> do you remember any pros/cons people previously had with it if it was part
> of the download?? I know folks get quite attached to their editor choices.

It used to be included.  It was...reasonably useful since it
associated .rb files with "an editor" which was nice.
Maybe we could just provide a link to something that does the same?
-r

From luislavena at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 11:32:51 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:32:51 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] scite
In-Reply-To: <e880bd570908290713w5e8b1c3el5d9d4e6c3b410dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908270951s7101c72at6e46de900e02fc7b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5a95d2680908271009j73565c63s8c1893b5e631bb13@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908290713w5e8b1c3el5d9d4e6c3b410dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908290832u1c9ff508hd9a6d3b0b083d1e2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Roger Pack<rogerdpack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> When you say scite, do you mean the all-in-one Sc1 (sc201.exe currently
>> ~550K) executable?
>>
>> I can't remember whether the old 1.8.6p26 installer included it or not, but
>> do you remember any pros/cons people previously had with it if it was part
>> of the download?? I know folks get quite attached to their editor choices.
>
> It used to be included. ?It was...reasonably useful since it
> associated .rb files with "an editor" which was nice.

File association requires write to HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, so that means it
requires administrative rights to do it:

http://www.jrsoftware.org/isfaq.php#ntsecur

While SciTE is "good" to getting started, lot of users will follow
tutorials about using things like NetBeans, RubyMine, Aptana, etc.

Personally I use Intype.

> Maybe we could just provide a link to something that does the same?

Definitely can be provided as resource in the documentation, but if we
bundle it, we need to realize that file association is not going to
work in corporate environments without the admin rights.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:29:16 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:29:16 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] mingw tk for 1.8.6
Message-ID: <e880bd570908291829q7db947b8xbe4d2ff0278cda83@mail.gmail.com>

Just thought I'd mention it again in case it were useful to someone.
If you want to run a tk app in 1.8.6 mingw [unless yours is compiled
with tk, which it probably isn't]
you can install some binaries for it by running install.rb from
git://github.com/rogerdpack/ruby_windows_tk.git
Enjoy.
-r

From rogerdpack at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:34:26 2009
From: rogerdpack at gmail.com (Roger Pack)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:34:26 -0600
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] .bat files in vista
Message-ID: <e880bd570908291834r62f8fb8ene3dbd11edf3cc639@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody else out there have problems running .bat files under vista?
i.e.

irb(main):001:0> system("ack.bat abc")
=> false
irb(main):002:0> `ack.bat abc`
Errno::EACCES: Permission denied - ack.bat abc
        from (irb):2:in ``'
        from (irb):2
irb(main):003:0>


works XP, fails vista (same .bat file works fine from the command line)?
Thanks.
-r

From reachme at charlesroper.co.uk  Mon Aug 31 09:51:45 2009
From: reachme at charlesroper.co.uk (Charles Roper)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:51:45 +0100
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] scite
In-Reply-To: <2c0671440908291005y4c91a70dl14c055d0b56cdaac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e880bd570908270951s7101c72at6e46de900e02fc7b@mail.gmail.com>	<5a95d2680908271009j73565c63s8c1893b5e631bb13@mail.gmail.com>	<e880bd570908290713w5e8b1c3el5d9d4e6c3b410dd7@mail.gmail.com>	<71166b3b0908290832u1c9ff508hd9a6d3b0b083d1e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c0671440908291005y4c91a70dl14c055d0b56cdaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BD571.8030103@charlesroper.co.uk>

On 29/08/2009 18:05, Bosko Ivanisevic wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com
> <mailto:luislavena at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Personally I use Intype.
>
> SciTE is good editor but whenever question about "best" editor for Ruby
> is asked on the Ruby mailing list almost each answer is about different
> editor. Personally I use Emacs since I have same functionalities on the
> Windows and Linux and I know lot of developers would not choose it.
> Nevertheless I don't think we should include SciTE in rubyinstaller.

It might be a good idea to provide a list of good quality, Ruby-ready 
editors on the wiki that offer a great out of the box experience for new 
users. Things like:

E Text Editor (Great Ruby support, Textmate bundles & snippets)
Sublime Editor (Good Ruby support, Textmate snippets support, extensible 
with Python)
TextShell (TextMate clone. Not very mature, but one to watch - doesn't 
default to Cygwin like E)
InType (Good Ruby support, but a bit vapourware-ish?)
Notepad++ (Any good for Ruby?)

Charles


From luislavena at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 10:32:01 2009
From: luislavena at gmail.com (Luis Lavena)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:32:01 +0200
Subject: [Rubyinstaller-devel] scite
In-Reply-To: <4A9BD571.8030103@charlesroper.co.uk>
References: <e880bd570908270951s7101c72at6e46de900e02fc7b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5a95d2680908271009j73565c63s8c1893b5e631bb13@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e880bd570908290713w5e8b1c3el5d9d4e6c3b410dd7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<71166b3b0908290832u1c9ff508hd9a6d3b0b083d1e2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2c0671440908291005y4c91a70dl14c055d0b56cdaac@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A9BD571.8030103@charlesroper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <71166b3b0908310732v41a24d9el74ae852d8c724e5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Charles
Roper<reachme at charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
>> ...
>> Personally I use Emacs since I have same functionalities on the
>> Windows and Linux and I know lot of developers would not choose it.
>> Nevertheless I don't think we should include SciTE in rubyinstaller.
>
> It might be a good idea to provide a list of good quality, Ruby-ready
> editors on the wiki that offer a great out of the box experience for new
> users. Things like:
>

Good idea, we can start the wiki page with your provided list:

> E Text Editor (Great Ruby support, Textmate bundles & snippets)
> Sublime Editor (Good Ruby support, Textmate snippets support, extensible
> with Python)
> TextShell (TextMate clone. Not very mature, but one to watch - doesn't
> default to Cygwin like E)

Never heard of it, looks very interesting, will give a whirl.

> InType (Good Ruby support, but a bit vapourware-ish?)

1.5 years in the making, heard of other products with longer cycles :P

> Notepad++ (Any good for Ruby?)

Is like SciTE in that matter.
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry