From efg at ncsu.edu  Tue Dec  2 14:41:49 2008
From: efg at ncsu.edu (Ed Gehringer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:41:49 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
Message-ID: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>

Hi list,

I just needed to restart my server after installation of a new secure  
certificate.  I also did "up2date -uf" to do kernel and AFS updates.   
Upon restarting, I issued

pg% mongrel_rails start -d -p 3000

to restart the server, and got this message:

** Ruby version is not up-to-date; loading cgi_multipart_eof_fix

What do I need to do to get it started?

Thanks,
Ed

From mikehale at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 14:56:54 2008
From: mikehale at gmail.com (Michael Hale)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:56:54 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
Message-ID: <60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>

My understanding is that the cgi_multipart_eof_fix makes older rubies
compatible with mongrel/rails whatever. In other words that should
just be an informational message. If mongrel is still not running
check the logs to see if there are other issues listed.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Ed Gehringer <efg at ncsu.edu> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I just needed to restart my server after installation of a new secure
> certificate.  I also did "up2date -uf" to do kernel and AFS updates.  Upon
> restarting, I issued
>
> pg% mongrel_rails start -d -p 3000
>
> to restart the server, and got this message:
>
> ** Ruby version is not up-to-date; loading cgi_multipart_eof_fix
>
> What do I need to do to get it started?
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From aaron at aaronbedra.com  Tue Dec  2 15:10:25 2008
From: aaron at aaronbedra.com (Aaron Bedra)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:10:25 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
	<60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>

That is correct, it's just informational.  There isn't anything you  
need to do about it.  It is just mongrel letting you know that it is  
loading a security patch while it is booting up.

http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/85966

Here is a reference of the announcement on the ruby-forum for more  
information.

Aaron

On Dec 2, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Michael Hale wrote:

> My understanding is that the cgi_multipart_eof_fix makes older rubies
> compatible with mongrel/rails whatever. In other words that should
> just be an informational message. If mongrel is still not running
> check the logs to see if there are other issues listed.
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Ed Gehringer <efg at ncsu.edu> wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> I just needed to restart my server after installation of a new secure
>> certificate.  I also did "up2date -uf" to do kernel and AFS  
>> updates.  Upon
>> restarting, I issued
>>
>> pg% mongrel_rails start -d -p 3000
>>
>> to restart the server, and got this message:
>>
>> ** Ruby version is not up-to-date; loading cgi_multipart_eof_fix
>>
>> What do I need to do to get it started?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ed
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From efg at ncsu.edu  Tue Dec  2 16:13:49 2008
From: efg at ncsu.edu (Ed Gehringer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:13:49 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
	<60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>
Message-ID: <0E2C94AE-F914-4C9B-9DD6-8A10BDCBB7DF@ncsu.edu>

Despite the fact that the message is only supposed to be  
informational, my server process is not starting correctly.  I wonder  
if this is due to the AFS and kernel upgrades that I installed just  
before the reboot.  Does anyone have any leads?

Thanks,
Ed

On Dec 2, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Aaron Bedra wrote:

> That is correct, it's just informational.  There isn't anything you  
> need to do about it.  It is just mongrel letting you know that it  
> is loading a security patch while it is booting up.
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/85966
>
> Here is a reference of the announcement on the ruby-forum for more  
> information.
>

From aaron at aaronbedra.com  Tue Dec  2 16:19:59 2008
From: aaron at aaronbedra.com (Aaron Bedra)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:19:59 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <0E2C94AE-F914-4C9B-9DD6-8A10BDCBB7DF@ncsu.edu>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
	<60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>
	<0E2C94AE-F914-4C9B-9DD6-8A10BDCBB7DF@ncsu.edu>
Message-ID: <3F6A7ACD-EB88-4E97-B1DC-60471D075028@aaronbedra.com>

Do you have a boot trace?  Does it say that it's not working?  What  
exactly is going wrong?

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Ed Gehringer wrote:

> Despite the fact that the message is only supposed to be  
> informational, my server process is not starting correctly.  I  
> wonder if this is due to the AFS and kernel upgrades that I  
> installed just before the reboot.  Does anyone have any leads?
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Aaron Bedra wrote:
>
>> That is correct, it's just informational.  There isn't anything you  
>> need to do about it.  It is just mongrel letting you know that it  
>> is loading a security patch while it is booting up.
>>
>> http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/85966
>>
>> Here is a reference of the announcement on the ruby-forum for more  
>> information.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From efg at ncsu.edu  Tue Dec  2 16:40:10 2008
From: efg at ncsu.edu (Ed Gehringer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:40:10 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <3F6A7ACD-EB88-4E97-B1DC-60471D075028@aaronbedra.com>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
	<60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>
	<0E2C94AE-F914-4C9B-9DD6-8A10BDCBB7DF@ncsu.edu>
	<3F6A7ACD-EB88-4E97-B1DC-60471D075028@aaronbedra.com>
Message-ID: <E183076A-C542-4128-8FD1-F13AEC1D6E27@ncsu.edu>

It may be an error in installing the secure certificate;

Syntax error on line 117 of /etc/httpd/conf.d/ssl.conf:
SSLCertificateFile: file '/etc/httpd/conf/ssl.crt/ 
expertiza.ncsu.edu.crt' does not exist or is empty

But the file exists and is not empty, so I will refer this to the  
certificate vendor.

Thanks,
Ed

On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Aaron Bedra wrote:

> Do you have a boot trace?  Does it say that it's not working?  What  
> exactly is going wrong?
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/0151c21f/attachment.html>

From nospam at tonyspencer.com  Tue Dec  2 17:20:18 2008
From: nospam at tonyspencer.com (Tony Spencer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:20:18 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rails hosting suggestion
In-Reply-To: <7641FD07-5BA6-4259-B72D-DAEF96FFF5A0@tonyspencer.com>
References: <a9c99e0a0811270647t8a35729j16a9544d504db721@mail.gmail.com>
	<7641FD07-5BA6-4259-B72D-DAEF96FFF5A0@tonyspencer.com>
Message-ID: <F014275D-BE4F-4251-A019-D0686F08E718@tonyspencer.com>

Unfortunately I've just had my first negative experience with  
Slicehost. I always pay the extra bit of money for their daily and  
weekly backup snapshots of slices. I only just today discovered that  
one of my slices was showing no entries for backups. After lots of  
back and forth emails with support they finally told me:

"It may be that the filesystem is simply too large to create the  
snapshot. We are currently working on a solution to such issues but I  
don't have a solid timeframe on it at the moment. If this is indeed  
the case then we will credit your account for the time you've had  
backups enabled and been unable to use them."

Yikes. I was so happy with their backups system but now I feel  
obligated to find another solution.  :(



On Nov 27, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Tony Spencer wrote:

> Slicehost has been rock solid for me for 1.5 years now.
>
> On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Jeff Canna wrote:
>
>> I am a site to be used by an organization that I am a part of.
>>
>> Would like to find a place to host it.
>>
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Jeff Canna
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>


From jschapm2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 17:31:54 2008
From: jschapm2 at gmail.com (Jeremy Chapman)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:31:54 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
Message-ID: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone,
I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently reading
the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
know what they're doing.
Later,
J
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/e2fc4353/attachment.html>

From mark at 37signals.com  Tue Dec  2 17:51:17 2008
From: mark at 37signals.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:51:17 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>


On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:

> Hey everyone,
> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently  
> reading the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but  
> I've never programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there  
> room for a noob with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse  
> myself with people who know what they're doing.

Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in  
learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program"  
book by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and  
Ruby than the Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if  
you are having any trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you  
to come out to meetings and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on  
Thursday, check http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions  
as you like -- there's always someone there who will be happy to help.

-Mark
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 2419 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/8356b2fd/attachment.bin>

From info at lojic.com  Tue Dec  2 17:53:20 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:53:20 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rails hosting suggestion
In-Reply-To: <F014275D-BE4F-4251-A019-D0686F08E718@tonyspencer.com>
References: <a9c99e0a0811270647t8a35729j16a9544d504db721@mail.gmail.com>	<7641FD07-5BA6-4259-B72D-DAEF96FFF5A0@tonyspencer.com>
	<F014275D-BE4F-4251-A019-D0686F08E718@tonyspencer.com>
Message-ID: <4935BC60.5080307@lojic.com>

Tony Spencer wrote, On 12/2/08 5:20 PM:
> Unfortunately I've just had my first negative experience with Slicehost. 
> I always pay the extra bit of money for their daily and weekly backup 
> snapshots of slices. I only just today discovered that one of my slices 
> was showing no entries for backups. After lots of back and forth emails 
> with support they finally told me:
> 
> "It may be that the filesystem is simply too large to create the 
> snapshot. We are currently working on a solution to such issues but I 
> don't have a solid timeframe on it at the moment. If this is indeed the 
> case then we will credit your account for the time you've had backups 
> enabled and been unable to use them."
> 
> Yikes. I was so happy with their backups system but now I feel obligated 
> to find another solution.  :(

That stinks! Their backup feature is one of their big selling points 
IMO. Hopefully, it's just a temporary glitch.

What size slice is it?

From javery at infozerk.com  Tue Dec  2 17:59:23 2008
From: javery at infozerk.com (James Avery)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:59:23 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
Message-ID: <20af90580812021459y4e037e7ar2304ad7736a020d2@mail.gmail.com>

Also feel free to jump on IRC #raleighrb on freenode and ask any questions
you have, much smaller and friendlier crowd than the big rooms.
-James

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:
>
>  Hey everyone,
>> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently reading
>> the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
>> programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
>> with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
>> know what they're doing.
>>
>
> Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in
> learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book
> by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the
> Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any
> trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings
> and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check
> http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like --
> there's always someone there who will be happy to help.
>
> -Mark
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
James Avery
Infozerk Inc.
http://www.infozerk.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/1fe0dfaa/attachment-0001.html>

From javery at infozerk.com  Tue Dec  2 17:59:36 2008
From: javery at infozerk.com (James Avery)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:59:36 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20af90580812021459y4e037e7ar2304ad7736a020d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<20af90580812021459y4e037e7ar2304ad7736a020d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20af90580812021459p285f362axf745ae31f838f0b6@mail.gmail.com>

Make that #raleigh.rb.
-James

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:59 PM, James Avery <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:

> Also feel free to jump on IRC #raleighrb on freenode and ask any questions
> you have, much smaller and friendlier crowd than the big rooms.
> -James
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:
>>
>>  Hey everyone,
>>> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently
>>> reading the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
>>> programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
>>> with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
>>> know what they're doing.
>>>
>>
>> Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in
>> learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book
>> by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the
>> Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any
>> trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings
>> and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check
>> http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like --
>> there's always someone there who will be happy to help.
>>
>> -Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Avery
> Infozerk Inc.
> http://www.infozerk.com
>



-- 
James Avery
Infozerk Inc.
http://www.infozerk.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/44816da5/attachment.html>

From nospam at tonyspencer.com  Tue Dec  2 18:01:24 2008
From: nospam at tonyspencer.com (Tony Spencer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:01:24 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rails hosting suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4935BC60.5080307@lojic.com>
References: <a9c99e0a0811270647t8a35729j16a9544d504db721@mail.gmail.com>	<7641FD07-5BA6-4259-B72D-DAEF96FFF5A0@tonyspencer.com>
	<F014275D-BE4F-4251-A019-D0686F08E718@tonyspencer.com>
	<4935BC60.5080307@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <43B5D1B0-05B1-488A-8888-044B3DE209FF@tonyspencer.com>

Yeah I was really sold on that feature as well. I don't feel like this  
slice is incredibly large at 30 GB (there are a lot of images of real  
estate). Whats worse is that I had always assumed backups were working  
and their system never sent me a notification like "Hey. We've noticed  
you haven't had any weekly or daily backups to occur in the past week.  
A support ticket has been submitted to our team and we'll be  
investigating."


On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:53 PM, Brian Adkins wrote:

> Tony Spencer wrote, On 12/2/08 5:20 PM:
>> Unfortunately I've just had my first negative experience with  
>> Slicehost. I always pay the extra bit of money for their daily and  
>> weekly backup snapshots of slices. I only just today discovered  
>> that one of my slices was showing no entries for backups. After  
>> lots of back and forth emails with support they finally told me:
>> "It may be that the filesystem is simply too large to create the  
>> snapshot. We are currently working on a solution to such issues but  
>> I don't have a solid timeframe on it at the moment. If this is  
>> indeed the case then we will credit your account for the time  
>> you've had backups enabled and been unable to use them."
>> Yikes. I was so happy with their backups system but now I feel  
>> obligated to find another solution.  :(
>
> That stinks! Their backup feature is one of their big selling points  
> IMO. Hopefully, it's just a temporary glitch.
>
> What size slice is it?
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>


From jschapm2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 20:56:11 2008
From: jschapm2 at gmail.com (Jeremy Chapman)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:56:11 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
Message-ID: <602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I read Chris Pine's book but found it hard to complete some of the
projects but it really is the best place to start. I've yet to reach that
epiphany moment that I know will come. I've had glimpses of it while
learning the basics so I'm getting addicted already. I would say my main
problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem
needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head step
by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and running
on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.
Thanks,
Jeremy
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:
>
>  Hey everyone,
>> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently reading
>> the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
>> programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
>> with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
>> know what they're doing.
>>
>
> Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in
> learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book
> by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the
> Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any
> trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings
> and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check
> http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like --
> there's always someone there who will be happy to help.
>
> -Mark
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/9f3c93ea/attachment.html>

From nospam at tonyspencer.com  Tue Dec  2 22:53:36 2008
From: nospam at tonyspencer.com (Tony Spencer)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 22:53:36 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>
Message-ID: <2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>

I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted to  
addressing the issue:

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Matthew Tanase <matt at slicehost.com>
> Date: December 2, 2008 9:31:26 PM EST
> To: Tony Spencer <tony at notsleepy.com>
> Subject: Re: Support Issue #6337 {90536}
>
> No problem at all. An update: it was the 1-hour fs scan that was  
> keeping the backups from kicking off. Jason lifted the time limit to  
> 2 hours and thinks it will run this time, we're keeping an eye on  
> it. Let me know if you need anything else.
>
> matt
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:37 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>
>> Excellent, excellent customer service here. Thank you very much and  
>> I can appreciate the problem of many files as I've dealt with that  
>> issue myself in the past. I'm surprised as I would have expected  
>> that you just backup a single image file like those you see with  
>> VMWare but anyway.... I'll ask my developer to figure out where the  
>> vast quantity of files are coming from and see if we can reduce  
>> that count.  I have no need to write a blog post about this except  
>> maybe a post of praise if we get a good warning solution.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Matthew Tanase wrote:
>>
>>> Ok Tony, I'm sorry you had to escalate this. We've been on your  
>>> server reviewing the issue, here's what we have so far:
>>>
>>> - the fs for your slice has 1.5 million files, which may be  
>>> causing the problem. There's a time limit of 4 hours for each  
>>> backup with 1 hour for the initial fs scan. These limits prevent  
>>> one backup from chewing up a lot of resources. People run into  
>>> problems when they have lots of files (from old deployments, big  
>>> caches, svn, etc). One solution would be to clear out the old/ 
>>> unused files.
>>>
>>> - the last backup we see is from Oct 16, so they were running  
>>> until that point. I'll take your suggestion regarding email  
>>> notification to the dev team, it's a good one.
>>>
>>> - we've restarted the backup, let's keep an eye on it and see if  
>>> this one goes through. If not, we can revisit the file count issue  
>>> above.
>>>
>>> - I've credited your account for 3-months worth of backups on that  
>>> slice as an apology.
>>>
>>> Once again I'm sorry we let you down. We very much appreciate your  
>>> business and referrals. I'm sure we'll talk more regarding this  
>>> issue, but in the future if I can be of assistance please let me  
>>> know.
>>>
>>> matt
>>> 314.266.3502
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:56 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>> Re: your Twitter reply, below is the problem that I've already  
>>>> been chatting with Ben B. about (slice: spainrealestate.co.uk).  
>>>> I've been a very happy Slicehost customer BTW.
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Tony Spencer <nospam at tonyspencer.com>
>>>>> Date: December 2, 2008 5:26:32 PM EST
>>>>> To: Slicehost Support <support at slicehost.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Support Issue #6337 {90536}
>>>>>
>>>>> Also I'm really disappointed that the backups I had depended on  
>>>>> were useless in this case. I don't feel like this slice is  
>>>>> incredibly large. Whats worse is that I had always assumed  
>>>>> backups were working and your system never sent me a  
>>>>> notification like "Hey. We've noticed you haven't had any weekly  
>>>>> or daily backups to occur in the past week. A support ticket has  
>>>>> been submitted to our team and we'll be investigating."
>>>>>
>>>>> I am active in the Rails community and have sung the praises of  
>>>>> Slicehost countless times to people asking for hosting  
>>>>> suggestions but this one is bad, bad. I'm planning to blog about  
>>>>> this tomorrow. If a member of your team would like to contact me  
>>>>> to go on the record about this problem I'll gladly hold the  
>>>>> draft before publishing it if the solution is coming soon and/or  
>>>>> allow them to comment on the record before I publish.  I can be  
>>>>> reached at : 919-522-4826
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:42 PM, Slicehost Support wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slicehost Support	
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apologies for the trouble you are having. It may be that the  
>>>>>> filesystem is simply too large to create the snapshot. We are  
>>>>>> currently working on a solution to such issues but I don't have  
>>>>>> a solid timeframe on it at the moment. If this is indeed the  
>>>>>> case then we will credit your account for the time you've had  
>>>>>> backups enabled and been unable to use them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am passing this along to our billing department for further  
>>>>>> review.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, I apologize for this inconvenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben B - Slicehost Support
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Tanase
>>> www.slicehost.com
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Tanase
> www.slicehost.com
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/6d875cda/attachment-0001.html>

From fatcatt316 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  2 23:19:46 2008
From: fatcatt316 at yahoo.com (Joe Peck)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <782476.57883.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Hey,

Here's a good beginning for new programmers.  Even if you don't get all the concepts, it's still a neat story to read.
http://poignantguide.net/ruby/

Good luck,
Joe




________________________________
From: Jeremy Chapman <jschapm2 at gmail.com>
To: The mailing list of raleigh.rb <raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 8:56:11 PM
Subject: Re: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby

Yes I read Chris Pine's book but found it hard to complete some of the projects but it really is the best place to start. I've yet to reach that epiphany moment that I know will come. I've had glimpses of it while learning the basics so I'm getting addicted already. I would say my main problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem 
needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head step by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and running on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.
Thanks,
Jeremy

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:


On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:


Hey everyone,
I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently reading the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who know what they're doing.


Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like -- there's always someone there who will be happy to help.

-Mark
_______________________________________________
raleigh-rb-members mailing list
raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081202/639b223d/attachment.html>

From tj at stank.us  Wed Dec  3 01:09:08 2008
From: tj at stank.us (TJ Stankus)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 01:09:08 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f25a5bb60812022209y66987bd0rcf32e35271c7ef7e@mail.gmail.com>

> problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem
> needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head step
> by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and running
> on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.

I don't know if you've read anything about test-driven development
yet, but I think you will find it very helpful in breaking down
problems that are hard to hold in your head all at once. In fact, you
might find that writing tests is a useful way to learn Ruby in
general. Mike Clark has a good blog post on this. It's a few years old
but still relevant, IMO: http://clarkware.com/cgi/blosxom/2005/03/18

Books are great, but there's nothing that compares to writing code to
solve problems. In that spirit, you may find http://rubyquiz.com/ and
http://codekata.pragprog.com/ useful.

Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the community.

-TJ

From mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 05:22:35 2008
From: mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com (Mark Bennett)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 05:22:35 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b2e941150812030222icd028bag79fe215e0d3a568@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a fun way to get started.  Try ruby in your browser.

http://tryruby.hobix.com/

Mark

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Jeremy Chapman <jschapm2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I read Chris Pine's book but found it hard to complete some of the
> projects but it really is the best place to start. I've yet to reach that
> epiphany moment that I know will come. I've had glimpses of it while
> learning the basics so I'm getting addicted already. I would say my main
> problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem
> needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head step
> by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and running
> on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:
>>
>>  Hey everyone,
>>> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently
>>> reading the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
>>> programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
>>> with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
>>> know what they're doing.
>>>
>>
>> Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in
>> learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book
>> by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the
>> Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any
>> trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings
>> and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check
>> http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like --
>> there's always someone there who will be happy to help.
>>
>> -Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/fff8b0ca/attachment.html>

From jschapm2 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 09:00:08 2008
From: jschapm2 at gmail.com (Jeremy Chapman)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:00:08 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <f25a5bb60812022209y66987bd0rcf32e35271c7ef7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812022209y66987bd0rcf32e35271c7ef7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <602391b30812030600qd1a8cd1x72ba085d8ac08581@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot TJ, I'm looking into it right now.
J

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:09 AM, TJ Stankus <tj at stank.us> wrote:

> > problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem
> > needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head
> step
> > by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and
> running
> > on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.
>
> I don't know if you've read anything about test-driven development
> yet, but I think you will find it very helpful in breaking down
> problems that are hard to hold in your head all at once. In fact, you
> might find that writing tests is a useful way to learn Ruby in
> general. Mike Clark has a good blog post on this. It's a few years old
> but still relevant, IMO: http://clarkware.com/cgi/blosxom/2005/03/18
>
> Books are great, but there's nothing that compares to writing code to
> solve problems. In that spirit, you may find http://rubyquiz.com/ and
> http://codekata.pragprog.com/ useful.
>
> Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the community.
>
> -TJ
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/b6465c35/attachment.html>

From jschapm2 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 09:08:05 2008
From: jschapm2 at gmail.com (Jeremy Chapman)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:08:05 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
In-Reply-To: <782476.57883.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <602391b30812021431w6fc91f64m252a391d61fb3e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<3F01CC7C-6DF6-4E41-8035-B74A8C2D9243@37signals.com>
	<602391b30812021756m596941c3xea1ad6c50f852dbf@mail.gmail.com>
	<782476.57883.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <602391b30812030608u406306eavcacf87d53ee34a12@mail.gmail.com>

Hehe yeah I read through most of it. That guy is off his rocker. Thanks for
the reply.
J

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Joe Peck <fatcatt316 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Here's a good beginning for new programmers.  Even if you don't get all the
> concepts, it's still a neat story to read.
> http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
>
> Good luck,
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Jeremy Chapman <jschapm2 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The mailing list of raleigh.rb <raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 2, 2008 8:56:11 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [raleigh.rb] new to Ruby
>
> Yes I read Chris Pine's book but found it hard to complete some of the
> projects but it really is the best place to start. I've yet to reach that
> epiphany moment that I know will come. I've had glimpses of it while
> learning the basics so I'm getting addicted already. I would say my main
> problem is putting everything together. For instance, if a problem
> needs to be solved, how to frame the outline of the project in my head step
> by step. I think when I get to this point I'll be able to get up and running
> on my own. Anyway maybe I'll get to meet some of you guys on thursday.
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Mark Imbriaco <mark at 37signals.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy Chapman wrote:
>>
>>  Hey everyone,
>>> I am a noob to Ruby but I would like to learn more. I am currently
>>> reading the Pickaxe and am starting to get a handle on things but I've never
>>> programmed before so it's a bit of a challenge. Is there room for a noob
>>> with ridiculous questions? If so I'd like to immerse myself with people who
>>> know what they're doing.
>>>
>>
>> Welcome, Jeremy!  There's always room for people who are interested in
>> learning more about Ruby.  Have you considered the "Learn to Program" book
>> by Chris Pine?  It's a gentler introduction to programming and Ruby than the
>> Pickaxe, and should be pretty quick to work through if you are having any
>> trouble with the Pickaxe.  Also, I'd encourage you to come out to meetings
>> and Hack Nights (there's a hack night on Thursday, check
>> http://ruby.meetup.com/3/) and ask as many questions as you like --
>> there's always someone there who will be happy to help.
>>
>> -Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/b1f31196/attachment-0001.html>

From nwalls at ismedia.org  Wed Dec  3 09:36:42 2008
From: nwalls at ismedia.org (Nathan L. Walls)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:36:42 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>
	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>
Message-ID: <0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>

Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem helps  
me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.

Nathan
--
nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
general:                     http://ismedia.org/
photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/


On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:

> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted  
> to addressing the issue:


From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 09:45:28 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:45:28 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>
	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>
	<0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>
Message-ID: <94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>

Also, if it helps... I once wiped out a production database I had on a  
slicehost instance. And the backup worked. I was able to restage the  
OS from the previous night's backup. Worked perfectly and only took a  
few minutes.

Jared


On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Nathan L. Walls wrote:

> Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem  
> helps me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.
>
> Nathan
> --
> nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
> general:                     http://ismedia.org/
> photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>
>> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted  
>> to addressing the issue:
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From seancribbs at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 09:54:41 2008
From: seancribbs at gmail.com (Sean Cribbs)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:54:41 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>	<0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>
	<94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49369DB1.3030305@gmail.com>

If your backups are taking a long time, you might consider moving those 
huge assets to S3 or some other CDN.  30GB is a lot of images (or really 
big ones)!

Sean

Jared wrote:
> Also, if it helps... I once wiped out a production database I had on a 
> slicehost instance. And the backup worked. I was able to restage the 
> OS from the previous night's backup. Worked perfectly and only took a 
> few minutes.
>
> Jared
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Nathan L. Walls wrote:
>
>> Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem helps 
>> me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.
>>
>> Nathan
>> -- 
>> nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
>> general:                     http://ismedia.org/
>> photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/
>>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted 
>>> to addressing the issue:
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>


From info at lojic.com  Wed Dec  3 12:37:20 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>	<0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>
	<94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936C3D0.7040700@lojic.com>

I recently did a "rsync -v -a --delete ..." forgetting that an important 
sub-directory on the server was not yet on my local machine. I bought a 
second $20 slice & cloned it from my backup and replaced the deleted 
directory all in 11 minutes.

The time savings was easily worth the $20 and I need a second slice 
anyway. Cloning a new slice from a backup is a *great* feature :)

Jared, are you dumping your db to a file so the backup will pick that up 
allowing you to restore from it, or were you able to restore the db from 
the slice backup only?

Given that it appears Xen doesn't snapshot like VMWare (or at least 
slicehost isn't using that feature), I'm not sure I'd trust the full 
backup to keep the integrity of the db intact.

Jared wrote, On 12/3/08 9:45 AM:
> Also, if it helps... I once wiped out a production database I had on a 
> slicehost instance. And the backup worked. I was able to restage the OS 
> from the previous night's backup. Worked perfectly and only took a few 
> minutes.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Nathan L. Walls wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem helps 
>> me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.
>>
>> Nathan
>> -- 
>> nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
>> general:                     http://ismedia.org/
>> photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/
>>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted 
>>> to addressing the issue:
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> 
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> 
> 

From rick.denatale at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 12:44:29 2008
From: rick.denatale at gmail.com (Rick DeNatale)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:44:29 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Getting around outdated Ruby
In-Reply-To: <E183076A-C542-4128-8FD1-F13AEC1D6E27@ncsu.edu>
References: <981A423D-A3A7-4DC7-BA7F-339FADCF5282@ncsu.edu>
	<60190a730812021156t18e94b83k4669563241a57008@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF20E0B2-799D-4C8E-8F96-39F47CBA9EC8@aaronbedra.com>
	<0E2C94AE-F914-4C9B-9DD6-8A10BDCBB7DF@ncsu.edu>
	<3F6A7ACD-EB88-4E97-B1DC-60471D075028@aaronbedra.com>
	<E183076A-C542-4128-8FD1-F13AEC1D6E27@ncsu.edu>
Message-ID: <deb2337a0812030944n9a7214dle197cbf39e92f193@mail.gmail.com>

Does the user running httpd have permissions for the file?

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Ed Gehringer <efg at ncsu.edu> wrote:

> It may be an error in installing the secure certificate;
> Syntax error on line 117 of /etc/httpd/conf.d/ssl.conf:
> SSLCertificateFile: file '/etc/httpd/conf/ssl.crt/expertiza.ncsu.edu.crt'
> does not exist or is empty
>
> But the file exists and is not empty, so I will refer this to the
> certificate vendor.
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Aaron Bedra wrote:
>
> Do you have a boot trace?  Does it say that it's not working?  What
> exactly is going wrong?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/94a49959/attachment.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 13:22:13 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:22:13 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <4936C3D0.7040700@lojic.com>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>	<0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>
	<94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>
	<4936C3D0.7040700@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <B5A6B092-148A-40D5-BD41-AD49B4179DA3@gmail.com>

I did a complete OS wipe and restore, including database state, using  
only the slicehost backup. Took about 3 minutes if memory serves.


On Dec 3, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Brian Adkins wrote:

> I recently did a "rsync -v -a --delete ..." forgetting that an  
> important sub-directory on the server was not yet on my local  
> machine. I bought a second $20 slice & cloned it from my backup and  
> replaced the deleted directory all in 11 minutes.
>
> The time savings was easily worth the $20 and I need a second slice  
> anyway. Cloning a new slice from a backup is a *great* feature :)
>
> Jared, are you dumping your db to a file so the backup will pick  
> that up allowing you to restore from it, or were you able to restore  
> the db from the slice backup only?
>
> Given that it appears Xen doesn't snapshot like VMWare (or at least  
> slicehost isn't using that feature), I'm not sure I'd trust the full  
> backup to keep the integrity of the db intact.
>
> Jared wrote, On 12/3/08 9:45 AM:
>> Also, if it helps... I once wiped out a production database I had  
>> on a slicehost instance. And the backup worked. I was able to  
>> restage the OS from the previous night's backup. Worked perfectly  
>> and only took a few minutes.
>> Jared
>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Nathan L. Walls wrote:
>>> Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem  
>>> helps me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>> -- 
>>> nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
>>> general:                     http://ismedia.org/
>>> photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly  
>>>> devoted to addressing the issue:
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From info at lojic.com  Wed Dec  3 13:41:23 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:41:23 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
Message-ID: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>

I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have 
never needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some 
contracts with larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.

Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software 
development and consulting businesses?

I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for 
that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for 
software development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 
person minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.

Thanks,
Brian

-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)

From info at lojic.com  Wed Dec  3 13:44:22 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:44:22 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] the Slicehost backups problem
In-Reply-To: <B5A6B092-148A-40D5-BD41-AD49B4179DA3@gmail.com>
References: <80C02EA4-8E52-4953-A9A6-B133E43034D9@slicehost.com>	<2B5AB52B-6EFA-4E8A-B104-2F409AF28370@tonyspencer.com>	<0BB4F86D-86C5-4C2D-868E-8C5695AF53DA@ismedia.org>	<94B64B2B-CB1C-4189-B10D-4AEE81E033DF@gmail.com>	<4936C3D0.7040700@lojic.com>
	<B5A6B092-148A-40D5-BD41-AD49B4179DA3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936D386.4070305@lojic.com>

Interesting. I've been concerned about the state of the db if a backup 
occurs during writes to the db. That's probably not likely for my sites 
at 3 am., but still possible.

I'll probably still dump the db to a flat file before the daily backup, 
but it's good to know that your restore didn't have any db problems.

Jared wrote, On 12/3/08 1:22 PM:
> I did a complete OS wipe and restore, including database state, using 
> only the slicehost backup. Took about 3 minutes if memory serves.
> 
> 
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Brian Adkins wrote:
> 
>> I recently did a "rsync -v -a --delete ..." forgetting that an 
>> important sub-directory on the server was not yet on my local machine. 
>> I bought a second $20 slice & cloned it from my backup and replaced 
>> the deleted directory all in 11 minutes.
>>
>> The time savings was easily worth the $20 and I need a second slice 
>> anyway. Cloning a new slice from a backup is a *great* feature :)
>>
>> Jared, are you dumping your db to a file so the backup will pick that 
>> up allowing you to restore from it, or were you able to restore the db 
>> from the slice backup only?
>>
>> Given that it appears Xen doesn't snapshot like VMWare (or at least 
>> slicehost isn't using that feature), I'm not sure I'd trust the full 
>> backup to keep the integrity of the db intact.
>>
>> Jared wrote, On 12/3/08 9:45 AM:
>>> Also, if it helps... I once wiped out a production database I had on 
>>> a slicehost instance. And the backup worked. I was able to restage 
>>> the OS from the previous night's backup. Worked perfectly and only 
>>> took a few minutes.
>>> Jared
>>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Nathan L. Walls wrote:
>>>> Thanks for sharing that. Seeing how a company handles a problem 
>>>> helps me make a better decision than simply hearing they're great.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan
>>>> -- 
>>>> nathan l. walls               nwalls at ismedia.org
>>>> general:                     http://ismedia.org/
>>>> photo stream:   http://flickr.com/photos/base10/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Tony Spencer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I got the attention of the founder and he seems to be truly devoted 
>>>>> to addressing the issue:
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> 
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> 
> 

From javery at infozerk.com  Wed Dec  3 13:50:21 2008
From: javery at infozerk.com (James Avery)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:50:21 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>

I needed general liability a couple years age and went through
http://www.techinsurance.com/, they ended up hooking me up with The Hartford
for about $500/year. They were nice to work with all around. That was just
general though, I didn't do E &  O. I think you are right that it will be
tough to get for one person and keep it reasonable.

-James

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:

> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have never
> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some contracts with
> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>
> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software development
> and consulting businesses?
>
> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for
> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for software
> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 person
> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian Adkins
> Lojic Technologies, LLC
> http://lojic.com/
> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
James Avery
Infozerk Inc.
http://www.infozerk.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/636ea1fd/attachment.html>

From ryan.daigle at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 13:53:46 2008
From: ryan.daigle at gmail.com (Ryan Daigle)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:53:46 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
	<20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA39092C-1E03-4D9E-B4DB-2B49EFEDDA3A@gmail.com>

I tried to get E&O through Hartford but they wouldn't return my calls  
(and I was an existing customer), so they were a fail for me.

-Ryan

On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:50 PM, "James Avery" <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:

> I needed general liability a couple years age and went through http://www.techinsurance.com/ 
> , they ended up hooking me up with The Hartford for about $500/year.  
> They were nice to work with all around. That was just general  
> though, I didn't do E &  O. I think you are right that it will be  
> tough to get for one person and keep it reasonable.
>
> -James
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have  
> never needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some  
> contracts with larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>
> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software  
> development and consulting businesses?
>
> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance  
> for that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O  
> for software development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a  
> 5 to 10 person minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was  
> quite high.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> -- 
> Brian Adkins
> Lojic Technologies, LLC
> http://lojic.com/
> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
>
> -- 
> James Avery
> Infozerk Inc.
> http://www.infozerk.com
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/833b65f8/attachment.html>

From tj at stank.us  Wed Dec  3 13:55:56 2008
From: tj at stank.us (TJ Stankus)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:55:56 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
	<20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f25a5bb60812031055q67a043eqa59bdedf9788ea63@mail.gmail.com>

I had to get "slip and fall" insurance to work onsite at Duke. It was
only about $150/year. I think you're being asked to get a different
type of coverage, but it's worth verifying that, as professional
liablity insurance is quite a bit more expensive.

-TJ

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:50 PM, James Avery <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:
> I needed general liability a couple years age and went
> through http://www.techinsurance.com/, they ended up hooking me up with The
> Hartford for about $500/year. They were nice to work with all around. That
> was just general though, I didn't do E &  O. I think you are right that it
> will be tough to get for one person and keep it reasonable.
>
> -James
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have never
>> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some contracts with
>> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software development
>> and consulting businesses?
>>
>> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for
>> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for software
>> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 person
>> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian Adkins
>> Lojic Technologies, LLC
>> http://lojic.com/
>> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
>
> --
> James Avery
> Infozerk Inc.
> http://www.infozerk.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From fmedlin at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 13:56:53 2008
From: fmedlin at gmail.com (Fred Medlin)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:56:53 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <CA39092C-1E03-4D9E-B4DB-2B49EFEDDA3A@gmail.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
	<20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA39092C-1E03-4D9E-B4DB-2B49EFEDDA3A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579ca95c0812031056i7d365970p6cdf7d91821896a7@mail.gmail.com>

If you're reading this thread in gmail, the sponsored links for liability
insurance are falling all over themselves to get you to click through...

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Ryan Daigle <ryan.daigle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I tried to get E&O through Hartford but they wouldn't return my calls (and
> I was an existing customer), so they were a fail for me.
>
> -Ryan
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:50 PM, "James Avery" <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:
>
> I needed general liability a couple years age and went through <http://www.techinsurance.com/>
> http://www.techinsurance.com/, they ended up hooking me up with The
> Hartford for about $500/year. They were nice to work with all around. That
> was just general though, I didn't do E &  O. I think you are right that it
> will be tough to get for one person and keep it reasonable.
>
> -James
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins < <info at lojic.com>
> info at lojic.com> wrote:
>
>> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have never
>> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some contracts with
>> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software development
>> and consulting businesses?
>>
>> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for
>> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for software
>> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 person
>> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian Adkins
>> Lojic Technologies, LLC
>>  <http://lojic.com/>http://lojic.com/
>> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>  <raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>  <http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members>
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Avery
> Infozerk Inc.
> <http://www.infozerk.com>http://www.infozerk.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081203/8a214709/attachment.html>

From info at lojic.com  Wed Dec  3 14:09:42 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:09:42 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <f25a5bb60812031055q67a043eqa59bdedf9788ea63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>	<20af90580812031050g7e965ff1y78be82b866fbd354@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812031055q67a043eqa59bdedf9788ea63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936D976.2070804@lojic.com>

Yeah, it's definitely prof. liability.

1. Workers' comp
2. Employer's liability $1M
3. Comprehensive general liability $1M
4. Comprehensive auto liability $1M
5. Excess comprehensive general liability $5M
6. Professional liability (errors & omissions) $2M

I expect the cost to be prohibitive, but I figured I'd at least look 
into it for future reference. Worst case, I'll just have to hire 4 to 9 
people :)

The project was nearly identical to an ASP service I wanted to develop 
anyway, so I'm close to talking them into a subscription for a service 
vs. a custom app, but they're very bureaucratic and may require the ins. 
anyway regardless of the site terms of service.

TJ Stankus wrote, On 12/3/08 1:55 PM:
> I had to get "slip and fall" insurance to work onsite at Duke. It was
> only about $150/year. I think you're being asked to get a different
> type of coverage, but it's worth verifying that, as professional
> liablity insurance is quite a bit more expensive.
> 
> -TJ
> 
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:50 PM, James Avery <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:
>> I needed general liability a couple years age and went
>> through http://www.techinsurance.com/, they ended up hooking me up with The
>> Hartford for about $500/year. They were nice to work with all around. That
>> was just general though, I didn't do E &  O. I think you are right that it
>> will be tough to get for one person and keep it reasonable.
>>
>> -James
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have never
>>> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some contracts with
>>> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>>>
>>> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software development
>>> and consulting businesses?
>>>
>>> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for
>>> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for software
>>> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 person
>>> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Adkins
>>> Lojic Technologies, LLC
>>> http://lojic.com/
>>> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Avery
>> Infozerk Inc.
>> http://www.infozerk.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> 
> 

From mikehale at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:31:53 2008
From: mikehale at gmail.com (Michael Hale)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:31:53 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <60190a730812031231w1613e6a1w1b500738df57da41@mail.gmail.com>

I have basic liability insurance through my State Farm agent (Tim
Farless). I know they also offer errors and omission buisiness
insurance, but I don't know how much it costs.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have never
> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some contracts with
> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>
> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software development
> and consulting businesses?
>
> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions insurance for
> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for software
> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10 person
> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian Adkins
> Lojic Technologies, LLC
> http://lojic.com/
> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From jon.list+rb at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 20:45:04 2008
From: jon.list+rb at gmail.com (Jonathon Brenner)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:45:04 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Consensus on mocking frameworks?
Message-ID: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>

I'm curious to find out what people are using for mocks/stubs these days.
How does RSpec's Spec::Mock stuff stack up against other frameworks, namely
Mocha and Flexmock? What are your preferences, either personally or
professionally?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081205/aa14df64/attachment.html>

From mshiltonj at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 21:09:14 2008
From: mshiltonj at gmail.com (Steven Hilton)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:09:14 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Consensus on mocking frameworks?
In-Reply-To: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8308260d0812051809o4005e2ccy54731e4572972bbe@mail.gmail.com>

I prefer RSpec because everything is baked-in nicely.

If you're using Test::Unit, I recommend flexmock.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:45 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious to find out what people are using for mocks/stubs these days.
> How does RSpec's Spec::Mock stuff stack up against other frameworks, namely
> Mocha and Flexmock? What are your preferences, either personally or
> professionally?
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
Steven Hilton <mshiltonj at gmail.com>
<http://mshiltonj.com/>

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect
 his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
 will make violent revolution inevitable."   --  John F. Kennedy

"There is no heart so black
  as the black, black heart
  of the phony leper." -- Adrian Monk

From jeremymcanally at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 21:50:57 2008
From: jeremymcanally at gmail.com (Jeremy McAnally)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:50:57 -0600
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Consensus on mocking frameworks?
In-Reply-To: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d878fe460812051850m3437aa7bmc38b60e18442fb3a@mail.gmail.com>

I really like rr personally.  It has a few tricks the others don't and
its syntax is really nice:

http://github.com/btakita/rr/tree/master

--Jeremy

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious to find out what people are using for mocks/stubs these days.
> How does RSpec's Spec::Mock stuff stack up against other frameworks, namely
> Mocha and Flexmock? What are your preferences, either personally or
> professionally?
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
http://jeremymcanally.com/
http://entp.com/
http://omgbloglol.com

My books:
http://manning.com/mcanally/
http://humblelittlerubybook.com/ (FREE!)

From crnixon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 21:59:28 2008
From: crnixon at gmail.com (Clinton R. Nixon)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:59:28 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Consensus on mocking frameworks?
In-Reply-To: <d878fe460812051850m3437aa7bmc38b60e18442fb3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
	<d878fe460812051850m3437aa7bmc38b60e18442fb3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bbd23f5e0812051859s199cd983mfe4eb457917cc386@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Jeremy McAnally
<jeremymcanally at gmail.com> wrote:
> I really like rr personally.  It has a few tricks the others don't and
> its syntax is really nice:

I agree with Jeremy. I liked mocha a lot, but rr's doing it for me these days.

- Clinton R. Nixon

From redinger at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 23:07:25 2008
From: redinger at gmail.com (Christopher Redinger)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:07:25 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Consensus on mocking frameworks?
In-Reply-To: <bbd23f5e0812051859s199cd983mfe4eb457917cc386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812051745u5da0db30oe3f0004fc239d697@mail.gmail.com>
	<d878fe460812051850m3437aa7bmc38b60e18442fb3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<bbd23f5e0812051859s199cd983mfe4eb457917cc386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <681d4e8f0812052007m3a35cf74k3d0208d4a303fbd9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Clinton R. Nixon <crnixon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with Jeremy. I liked mocha a lot, but rr's doing it for me these days.

+1 for rr.

-- 
Christopher Redinger
http://www.agiledisciple.com

From fmedlin at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 11:49:26 2008
From: fmedlin at gmail.com (Fred Medlin)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:49:26 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
Message-ID: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading my
HD.
Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang meetup;
also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your schedule. Thanks!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081209/cd991646/attachment.html>

From mikehale at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 11:50:29 2008
From: mikehale at gmail.com (Michael Hale)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:50:29 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60190a730812090850i84d2098x1bf196cda8a504cc@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure I have one in my massive laptop bag.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin <fmedlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading my
> HD.
> Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang meetup;
> also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your schedule. Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From kevin at hypotheticalabs.com  Tue Dec  9 11:50:35 2008
From: kevin at hypotheticalabs.com (Kevin A. Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:50:35 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84654C0B-58FC-41DF-9C8B-4EE6B49DF41A@hypotheticalabs.com>

I can bring one on Thursday to CCC if you can wait that long. I just  
did the HD replacement boogie on MB a few months back...

--Kev
On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin wrote:

> Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm  
> upgrading my HD.
>
> Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang  
> meetup; also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your  
> schedule. Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From mikehale at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 11:51:17 2008
From: mikehale at gmail.com (Michael Hale)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:51:17 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure I have one in my massive laptop bag.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin <fmedlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading my
> HD.
> Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang meetup;
> also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your schedule. Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From fmedlin at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 12:12:10 2008
From: fmedlin at gmail.com (Fred Medlin)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:12:10 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <84654C0B-58FC-41DF-9C8B-4EE6B49DF41A@hypotheticalabs.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<84654C0B-58FC-41DF-9C8B-4EE6B49DF41A@hypotheticalabs.com>
Message-ID: <579ca95c0812090912l4ee0bbcex4092f90fa2fab00d@mail.gmail.com>

That'd be great Kevin, thanks. My drive probably won't arrive until Weds or
Thurs anyway.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Kevin A. Smith
<kevin at hypotheticalabs.com>wrote:

> I can bring one on Thursday to CCC if you can wait that long. I just did
> the HD replacement boogie on MB a few months back...
>
> --Kev
> On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin wrote:
>
>  Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading my
>> HD.
>>
>> Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang
>> meetup; also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your schedule.
>> Thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081209/64bbe6b1/attachment.html>

From fmedlin at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 12:13:24 2008
From: fmedlin at gmail.com (Fred Medlin)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:13:24 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579ca95c0812090913p677e3058wea4f70fffea0113a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks anyways, mr. mad skillz. I'll see you Saturday probably...

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Michael Hale <mikehale at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure I have one in my massive laptop bag.
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin <fmedlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading my
> > HD.
> > Planning to work at Carrboro CC on Thursday and stay for the Erlang
> meetup;
> > also to Saturday's Radiant sprint if any of those fit your schedule.
> Thanks!
> > _______________________________________________
> > raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> > raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> >
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081209/e8196cce/attachment.html>

From nwalls at ismedia.org  Tue Dec  9 13:04:27 2008
From: nwalls at ismedia.org (Nathan L. Walls)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:04:27 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <579ca95c0812090913p677e3058wea4f70fffea0113a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>
	<579ca95c0812090913p677e3058wea4f70fffea0113a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBBE1FDA-9487-4FE3-BDDC-8F7BECB95BBC@ismedia.org>

If you weren't aware, you'll also want some sort of non-metal tool to  
flip the interior latches above the DVD drive. There are three of  
them, and they are hellacious to open.

I picked up a plastic clay set with a flat wedge blade at AC Moore for  
$3.

Cheers,

Nathan

On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Fred Medlin wrote:

> Thanks anyways, mr. mad skillz. I'll see you Saturday probably...
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Michael Hale <mikehale at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure I have one in my massive laptop bag.
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin <fmedlin at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> > Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm  
> upgrading my
> > HD.

From fmedlin at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 13:26:51 2008
From: fmedlin at gmail.com (Fred Medlin)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:26:51 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <CBBE1FDA-9487-4FE3-BDDC-8F7BECB95BBC@ismedia.org>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>
	<579ca95c0812090913p677e3058wea4f70fffea0113a@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBBE1FDA-9487-4FE3-BDDC-8F7BECB95BBC@ismedia.org>
Message-ID: <579ca95c0812091026q2139871csab235b3482deb1b4@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the heads up! I would doc the process, but there are so many good
ones out there already. I was planning on following the ifixit version.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Nathan L. Walls <nwalls at ismedia.org> wrote:

> If you weren't aware, you'll also want some sort of non-metal tool to flip
> the interior latches above the DVD drive. There are three of them, and they
> are hellacious to open.
>
> I picked up a plastic clay set with a flat wedge blade at AC Moore for $3.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nathan
>
> On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Fred Medlin wrote:
>
>  Thanks anyways, mr. mad skillz. I'll see you Saturday probably...
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Michael Hale <mikehale at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure I have one in my massive laptop bag.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Fred Medlin <fmedlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Anyone have a T6 Torx I can borrow for some MBP surgery? I'm upgrading
>> my
>> > HD.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081209/0dd824be/attachment.html>

From mark at 37signals.com  Tue Dec  9 13:39:21 2008
From: mark at 37signals.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:39:21 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] T6 Torx screwdriver
In-Reply-To: <579ca95c0812091026q2139871csab235b3482deb1b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579ca95c0812090849s3da43aekd90cf48641bbb49b@mail.gmail.com>
	<60190a730812090851r244ccab3h5af178f246a53780@mail.gmail.com>
	<579ca95c0812090913p677e3058wea4f70fffea0113a@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBBE1FDA-9487-4FE3-BDDC-8F7BECB95BBC@ismedia.org>
	<579ca95c0812091026q2139871csab235b3482deb1b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B60393C-8C42-4094-BD5A-D80A13246D3A@37signals.com>



On Dec 9, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Fred Medlin wrote:

> Thanks for the heads up! I would doc the process, but there are so  
> many good ones out there already. I was planning on following the  
> ifixit version.

I followed the iFixit instructions for replacing the hard drive in my  
MBP a year or so ago and had no difficulty getting through it.  There  
are lots of screws and it's kind of tedious, but as long as you take  
your time and make sure you keep the screws organized so you can put  
them back in the right place, you'll be fine.

-Mark


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 2419 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081209/961c306e/attachment.bin>

From info at applicationarch.com  Wed Dec 10 11:38:43 2008
From: info at applicationarch.com (Chris Kubica)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:38:43 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Liability Insurance
In-Reply-To: <60190a730812031231w1613e6a1w1b500738df57da41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4936D2D3.6020403@lojic.com>
	<60190a730812031231w1613e6a1w1b500738df57da41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7653BDE9-F942-4F3E-B5F9-6DB0728532BA@applicationarch.com>

I have a good E & O policy with State Farm and it is $710/year. I also  
have general liability with them, but don't recall how much it is per  
year. But it is reasonable.

Sincerely,

Chris Kubica
President, Founder

Application Architects

1-888-896-4608 (Ph/Fax)
1-202-280-2042 (Int'l Ph/Fax)

http://www.applicationarch.com

Certified FileMaker Developer
FileMaker Business Alliance (FBA) Member
Certified Project Management Professional (PMP)

FDA, Part 11, GxP, HIPAA and SOX Compliance Experts


On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Michael Hale wrote:

> I have basic liability insurance through my State Farm agent (Tim
> Farless). I know they also offer errors and omission buisiness
> insurance, but I don't know how much it costs.
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
>> I've had my company, Lojic Technologies, for over 10 years and have  
>> never
>> needed liability insurance; however, I'm now considering some  
>> contracts with
>> larger (i.e. bureaucratic) companies that require it.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend an insurance provider for small software  
>> development
>> and consulting businesses?
>>
>> I also own a real estate brokerage, but Errors & Omissions  
>> insurance for
>> that is about $500/yr. The last I checked on liability and E&O for  
>> software
>> development & consulting, it seemed to be priced with a 5 to 10  
>> person
>> minimum in mind, so for a single member LLC, it was quite high.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian Adkins
>> Lojic Technologies, LLC
>> http://lojic.com/
>> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>>




From jon.list+rb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 14:49:28 2008
From: jon.list+rb at gmail.com (Jonathon Brenner)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:49:28 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
Message-ID: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>

I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to hear the
opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
---------------------------

I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident in my
code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time recognizing
over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of heavy refactoring.
Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998

The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes lambdas
to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to redundancy versus
complexity:

- The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs lower due to
the lack of the lambda calls).
- The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place, which makes
it easier to change the call later.

I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into collections of
two line methods, but I think I'm missing the bigger picture here. Are there
more issues that I haven't taken into account? What's your decision-making
process when it comes to refactoring?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081211/8ef0918d/attachment.html>

From ryan.daigle at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 15:21:23 2008
From: ryan.daigle at gmail.com (Ryan Daigle)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:21:23 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>

I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got very
small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.

Readability > smallest method possible

-Ryan

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner
<jon.list+rb at gmail.com<jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to hear the
> opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
> ---------------------------
>
> I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
> fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident in my
> code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time recognizing
> over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of heavy refactoring.
> Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998
>
> The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes lambdas
> to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to redundancy versus
> complexity:
>
> - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs lower due to
> the lack of the lambda calls).
> - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place, which makes
> it easier to change the call later.
>
> I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into collections
> of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the bigger picture here. Are
> there more issues that I haven't taken into account? What's your
> decision-making process when it comes to refactoring?
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081211/8570ff62/attachment.html>

From nathaniel at talbott.ws  Thu Dec 11 15:21:59 2008
From: nathaniel at talbott.ws (Nathaniel Talbott)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:21:59 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ce336a20812111221j5d10d832s44af0c4b3d0c3179@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com> wrote:


> The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes lambdas
> to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to redundancy versus
> complexity:
> - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs lower due to
> the lack of the lambda calls).
> - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place, which makes
> it easier to change the call later.

I put it on gist and did an edit that should take your flog score down:

  https://gist.github.com/34856/57dcba7a6c8247d8a57f3b40ba27f91fc5a8b1a6

Basically, you can use the block directly without using a lambda.

In general I like your refactoring, since it cuts down on the duplication.


-- 
Nathaniel Talbott
<:((><

From bryan.kearney at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 15:25:23 2008
From: bryan.kearney at gmail.com (Bryan Kearney)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:25:23 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49417733.6070001@gmail.com>

I agree. Good chance tha in 2 months you will look at that code and say 
WTF does that do? Unless the open call takes 20 seconds... make it more 
readable.

-- bk


Ryan Daigle wrote:
> I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
>
> Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got 
> very small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.
>
> Readability > smallest method possible
>
> -Ryan
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner 
> <jon.list+rb at gmail.com <mailto:jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to
>     hear the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
>     ---------------------------
>
>     I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
>     fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident
>     in my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time
>     recognizing over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of
>     heavy refactoring. 
>
>     Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998 
>
>     The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes
>     lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to
>     redundancy versus complexity:
>
>     - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs
>     lower due to the lack of the lambda calls).
>     - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place,
>     which makes it easier to change the call later.
>
>     I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into
>     collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the
>     bigger picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken
>     into account? What's your decision-making process when it comes to
>     refactoring?
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>     raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
>     http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members

From javery at infozerk.com  Thu Dec 11 15:32:52 2008
From: javery at infozerk.com (James Avery)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:32:52 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <49417733.6070001@gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
	<49417733.6070001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20af90580812111232u2cc1ee57s8d2728a2af8984da@mail.gmail.com>

Marcel Molina did a good talk at RubyConf07 on decisions like this:

http://rubyconf2007.confreaks.com/d1t1p1_what_makes_code_beautiful.html

-James

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Bryan Kearney <bryan.kearney at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree. Good chance tha in 2 months you will look at that code and say WTF
> does that do? Unless the open call takes 20 seconds... make it more
> readable.
>
> -- bk
>
>
> Ryan Daigle wrote:
>>
>> I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
>>
>> Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got very
>> small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.
>>
>> Readability > smallest method possible
>>
>> -Ryan
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to
>>    hear the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
>>    ---------------------------
>>
>>    I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
>>    fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident
>>    in my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time
>>    recognizing over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of
>>    heavy refactoring.
>>    Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998
>>    The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes
>>    lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to
>>    redundancy versus complexity:
>>
>>    - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs
>>    lower due to the lack of the lambda calls).
>>    - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place,
>>    which makes it easier to change the call later.
>>
>>    I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into
>>    collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the
>>    bigger picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken
>>    into account? What's your decision-making process when it comes to
>>    refactoring?
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>    raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>    <mailto:raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
>>    http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
James Avery
Infozerk Inc.
http://www.infozerk.com

From tj at stank.us  Thu Dec 11 15:51:46 2008
From: tj at stank.us (TJ Stankus)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:51:46 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <20af90580812111232u2cc1ee57s8d2728a2af8984da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
	<49417733.6070001@gmail.com>
	<20af90580812111232u2cc1ee57s8d2728a2af8984da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f25a5bb60812111251m1bfa26dakfcb26241588cd539@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for original code

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:32 PM, James Avery <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:
> Marcel Molina did a good talk at RubyConf07 on decisions like this:
>
> http://rubyconf2007.confreaks.com/d1t1p1_what_makes_code_beautiful.html
>
> -James
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Bryan Kearney <bryan.kearney at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree. Good chance tha in 2 months you will look at that code and say WTF
>> does that do? Unless the open call takes 20 seconds... make it more
>> readable.
>>
>> -- bk
>>
>>
>> Ryan Daigle wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
>>>
>>> Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got very
>>> small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.
>>>
>>> Readability > smallest method possible
>>>
>>> -Ryan
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to
>>>    hear the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
>>>    ---------------------------
>>>
>>>    I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
>>>    fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident
>>>    in my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time
>>>    recognizing over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of
>>>    heavy refactoring.
>>>    Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998
>>>    The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes
>>>    lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to
>>>    redundancy versus complexity:
>>>
>>>    - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs
>>>    lower due to the lack of the lambda calls).
>>>    - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place,
>>>    which makes it easier to change the call later.
>>>
>>>    I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into
>>>    collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the
>>>    bigger picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken
>>>    into account? What's your decision-making process when it comes to
>>>    refactoring?
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>>    raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>>    <mailto:raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
>>>    http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Avery
> Infozerk Inc.
> http://www.infozerk.com
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From jeffm.keating at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 15:56:57 2008
From: jeffm.keating at gmail.com (Jeff Keating)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:56:57 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <f25a5bb60812111251m1bfa26dakfcb26241588cd539@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
	<49417733.6070001@gmail.com>
	<20af90580812111232u2cc1ee57s8d2728a2af8984da@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812111251m1bfa26dakfcb26241588cd539@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbf7d70a0812111256y75ed5c35m65b1973b8ce97d3d@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for readability.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:51 PM, TJ Stankus <tj at stank.us> wrote:

> +1 for original code
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:32 PM, James Avery <javery at infozerk.com> wrote:
> > Marcel Molina did a good talk at RubyConf07 on decisions like this:
> >
> > http://rubyconf2007.confreaks.com/d1t1p1_what_makes_code_beautiful.html
> >
> > -James
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Bryan Kearney <bryan.kearney at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I agree. Good chance tha in 2 months you will look at that code and say
> WTF
> >> does that do? Unless the open call takes 20 seconds... make it more
> >> readable.
> >>
> >> -- bk
> >>
> >>
> >> Ryan Daigle wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
> >>>
> >>> Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got very
> >>> small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.
> >>>
> >>> Readability > smallest method possible
> >>>
> >>> -Ryan
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner <
> jon.list+rb at gmail.com <jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>
> >>> <mailto:jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com <jon.list%252Brb at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>    I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to
> >>>    hear the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
> >>>    ---------------------------
> >>>
> >>>    I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the
> >>>    fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident
> >>>    in my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time
> >>>    recognizing over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of
> >>>    heavy refactoring.
> >>>    Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998
> >>>    The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes
> >>>    lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to
> >>>    redundancy versus complexity:
> >>>
> >>>    - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs
> >>>    lower due to the lack of the lambda calls).
> >>>    - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place,
> >>>    which makes it easier to change the call later.
> >>>
> >>>    I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into
> >>>    collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the
> >>>    bigger picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken
> >>>    into account? What's your decision-making process when it comes to
> >>>    refactoring?
> >>>
> >>>    _______________________________________________
> >>>    raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> >>>    raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> >>>    <mailto:raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
> >>>    http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> >>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> >> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Avery
> > Infozerk Inc.
> > http://www.infozerk.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> > raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
> >
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081211/c9f7a42d/attachment.html>

From seancribbs at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 15:05:40 2008
From: seancribbs at gmail.com (Sean Cribbs)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:05:40 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49417294.3070600@gmail.com>

For me, simplicity and clarity of intent are always paramount.  Turning 
those blocks into lambdas/procs is unnecessary in the pattern you have 
described.  Just pass the block directly to the method:

def manager(&block) # <-- even &block isn't strictly necessary
  SNMP::Manager.open(manager_config) {|m| yield m }
end

Cheers,

Sean

Jonathon Brenner wrote:
> I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to hear 
> the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
> ---------------------------
>
> I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following the 
> fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident in 
> my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time recognizing 
> over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of heavy refactoring. 
>
> Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998 
>
> The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes 
> lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to 
> redundancy versus complexity:
>
> - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs lower 
> due to the lack of the lambda calls).
> - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place, which 
> makes it easier to change the call later.
>
> I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into 
> collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the bigger 
> picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken into account? 
> What's your decision-making process when it comes to refactoring?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081211/880c4d2f/attachment.html>

From JBrenner at BBandT.com  Thu Dec 11 17:28:44 2008
From: JBrenner at BBandT.com (Brenner, Jonathon)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:44 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <49417294.3070600@gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<49417294.3070600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091326BC@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>

That's what I ended up doing. I recently started dabbling in proc/lambda
magic, so I guess it was at the front of my brain. Thanks to everyone
for the insightful comments.
 
Jon

________________________________

From: raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org
[mailto:raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Sean
Cribbs
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM
To: The mailing list of raleigh.rb
Subject: Re: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring


For me, simplicity and clarity of intent are always paramount.  Turning
those blocks into lambdas/procs is unnecessary in the pattern you have
described.  Just pass the block directly to the method:

def manager(&block) # <-- even &block isn't strictly necessary
  SNMP::Manager.open(manager_config) {|m| yield m }
end

Cheers,

Sean

Jonathon Brenner wrote: 

	
	I posted this to the Rails Studio mailing list, but I'd like to
hear the opinions of my fellow Raleigh Rubyists as well.
	---------------------------

	I'm a relatively new disciple of TDD/BDD. I've been following
the fail/pass/refactor cycle, and as a result, I'm far more confident in
my code. Unfortunately, I'm still having a hard time recognizing
over-architecture and evaluating the cost/benefit of heavy refactoring.


	Let's start with an example: http://pastie.org/336998 

	The original code is commented out. The new refactored code
passes lambdas to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to
redundancy versus complexity:

	- The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs
lower due to the lack of the lambda calls).
	- The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place,
which makes it easier to change the call later.

	I want to be like the cool kids that refactor their apps into
collections of two line methods, but I think I'm missing the bigger
picture here. Are there more issues that I haven't taken into account?
What's your decision-making process when it comes to refactoring?
	
________________________________


	_______________________________________________
	raleigh-rb-members mailing list
	raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
	http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081211/5d745057/attachment.html>

From johnwlong2000 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 17:29:32 2008
From: johnwlong2000 at gmail.com (John W. Long)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:29:32 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <944EB959-2ACC-4577-94C3-3898EB023455@gmail.com>


On Dec 11, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Ryan Daigle wrote:
> Readability > smallest method possible

I chuckled over this. I had to read it twice to get it. :)

--John

From nathaniel at talbott.ws  Thu Dec 11 17:33:18 2008
From: nathaniel at talbott.ws (Nathaniel Talbott)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:33:18 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<748ff3ff0812111221l5672d4e5i5810c32e74738e73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ce336a20812111433y3257fcbau3f9cc83d8fc77726@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Ryan Daigle <ryan.daigle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I like the original code better.  Easier to grok at a glance.
> Plus, I think a cool kid would like the original ones - you've got very
> small methods (3 lines each) and good structure within each method.
> Readability > smallest method possible

I think going for smallest possible method is dangerous, but my
concern is the duplication in the original. With just two methods, no
problem, but what if there were five? In that case I think pulling
that open block out would be a big plus. Not sure this is the best way
to do it (not enough context), but it seems reasonable.

As for readability, I think just taking the outermost block and making
it do/end instead of {/} would help a lot:

  https://gist.github.com/34856/0817e7fefb30ace0e578fcdf2238ad4e6e515623

Just my $0.02,


-- 
Nathaniel Talbott
<:((><

From jon.list+rb at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 08:48:02 2008
From: jon.list+rb at gmail.com (Jonathon Brenner)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:48:02 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The cost/benefit of refactoring
In-Reply-To: <4ce336a20812111221j5d10d832s44af0c4b3d0c3179@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eddcf8ca0812111149w300f4cy4815ffd7cf296305@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ce336a20812111221j5d10d832s44af0c4b3d0c3179@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eddcf8ca0812120548g4aad702bw33af9f15e5c2710e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Nathaniel. I appreciate the revision.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Nathaniel Talbott <nathaniel at talbott.ws>wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Jonathon Brenner <jon.list+rb at gmail.com<jon.list%2Brb at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> > The original code is commented out. The new refactored code passes
> lambdas
> > to the "manager" method. My issue basically boils down to redundancy
> versus
> > complexity:
> > - The original code is simpler for both me and ruby (it flogs lower due
> to
> > the lack of the lambda calls).
> > - The new code only only calls SNMP::Manager#open in one place, which
> makes
> > it easier to change the call later.
>
> I put it on gist and did an edit that should take your flog score down:
>
>  https://gist.github.com/34856/57dcba7a6c8247d8a57f3b40ba27f91fc5a8b1a6
>
> Basically, you can use the block directly without using a lambda.
>
> In general I like your refactoring, since it cuts down on the duplication.
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Talbott
> <:((><
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081212/99a22c07/attachment.html>

From ryan.daigle at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 07:54:12 2008
From: ryan.daigle at gmail.com (Ryan Daigle)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:54:12 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Macbook Pro for sale
Message-ID: <748ff3ff0812160454q31788125p9a35c1eb406c740f@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a two-year old 15" MacBook Pro 2 Ghz Core Duo w/ Mac OSX 10.5
(Leopard) and 2 Gb of RAM in excellent condition that I'm looking to sell.
 These go for around $1100 on EBay.  If anybody's interested please let me
know.
-Ryan Daigle
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081216/7744cbfe/attachment.html>

From mikehale at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 09:07:15 2008
From: mikehale at gmail.com (Michael Hale)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:07:15 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Is there a better way?
Message-ID: <60190a730812160607m55616e40x84e3f5cf361bb027@mail.gmail.com>

Hello raleigh.rb. I have some code that is parsing http headers into a
hash: http://gist.github.com/36462 I was wondering if ya'll know of a
better way than using a temporary hash. For some reason using the
temporary hash just feels ugly to me.

- Michael Hale

From seancribbs at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 09:18:39 2008
From: seancribbs at gmail.com (Sean Cribbs)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:18:39 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Is there a better way?
In-Reply-To: <60190a730812160607m55616e40x84e3f5cf361bb027@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60190a730812160607m55616e40x84e3f5cf361bb027@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4947B8BF.3050005@gmail.com>

Michael,

That's a classic case for inject.

request.split("\r\n")[1..-1].inject({}) do |h, e|
    k,v = e.split(': ')
    h.merge k => v
end

Sean

Michael Hale wrote:
> Hello raleigh.rb. I have some code that is parsing http headers into a
> hash: http://gist.github.com/36462 I was wondering if ya'll know of a
> better way than using a temporary hash. For some reason using the
> temporary hash just feels ugly to me.
>
> - Michael Hale
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>   


From jerrod at indierockmedia.com  Tue Dec 16 10:20:18 2008
From: jerrod at indierockmedia.com (Jerrod Blavos)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:20:18 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
	question/assistance..
Message-ID: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>

Hi all,

Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to  
allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in  
your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?

Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to  
authorize one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the  
rflickr codebase.

Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.


Thanks!

-Jerrod


Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
106 S. Woodshed Ct.
Cary, NC 27513

From jerrod at indierockmedia.com  Tue Dec 16 10:34:18 2008
From: jerrod at indierockmedia.com (Jerrod Blavos)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:34:18 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
	question/assistance..
In-Reply-To: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
References: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
Message-ID: <6D0C0260-2964-436C-986E-BDE3AA5C50DC@indierockmedia.com>

and i think as soon as i posted this i realized that the "cached  
token" == the token i was storing the in the db for each user, so i  
just needed to send that back, per request.  im going to have to write  
this up...



On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Jerrod Blavos wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to  
> allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in  
> your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?
>
> Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to  
> authorize one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the  
> rflickr codebase.
>
> Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Jerrod
>
>
> Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
> 106 S. Woodshed Ct.
> Cary, NC 27513
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From JBrenner at BBandT.com  Tue Dec 16 10:47:15 2008
From: JBrenner at BBandT.com (Brenner, Jonathon)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:47:15 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
 question/assistance..
In-Reply-To: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
References: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
Message-ID: <91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091C8141@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>

Lovd By Less supports it. Check it out at
http://github.com/stevenbristol/lovd-by-less/tree/master. 

-----Original Message-----
From: raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org
[mailto:raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Jerrod
Blavos
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:20 AM
To: raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
question/assistance..

Hi all,

Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to
allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in
your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?

Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to authorize
one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the rflickr
codebase.

Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.


Thanks!

-Jerrod


Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
106 S. Woodshed Ct.
Cary, NC 27513
_______________________________________________
raleigh-rb-members mailing list
raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members



From jerrod at indierockmedia.com  Tue Dec 16 10:55:41 2008
From: jerrod at indierockmedia.com (Jerrod Blavos)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:55:41 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
	question/assistance..
In-Reply-To: <91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091C8141@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>
References: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
	<91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091C8141@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>
Message-ID: <689A1EA2-1659-4F3F-8286-A64EF2ED2963@indierockmedia.com>

Thanks, but i did look at that. they authenticate with flickr once and  
appear to cache the token for the app owner, and then allow users to  
look up their photos using their flickr id.  this allows only public  
photos to be accessed for each user.

what im attempting to do is to allow each user in my application to  
access photosets and photos from their flickr account (and only their  
account, with lovdbyless i could put anyones flickr id in. and that  
just seems wrong), and to do this i need to store and pass a token  
back for each user.

and it looks like i spoke too soon previously.  rflicker seems to only  
want to read tokens from disk. if i pass back the token i have saved  
in the db, it looks for a file on the filesystem with that name, which  
is just weird.

-

On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Brenner, Jonathon wrote:

> Lovd By Less supports it. Check it out at
> http://github.com/stevenbristol/lovd-by-less/tree/master.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org
> [mailto:raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Jerrod
> Blavos
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
> question/assistance..
>
> Hi all,
>
> Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to
> allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in
> your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?
>
> Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to  
> authorize
> one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the rflickr
> codebase.
>
> Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Jerrod
>
>
> Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
> 106 S. Woodshed Ct.
> Cary, NC 27513
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From aaron at aaronbedra.com  Tue Dec 16 10:59:47 2008
From: aaron at aaronbedra.com (Aaron Bedra)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:59:47 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
	question/assistance..
In-Reply-To: <689A1EA2-1659-4F3F-8286-A64EF2ED2963@indierockmedia.com>
References: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
	<91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091C8141@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>
	<689A1EA2-1659-4F3F-8286-A64EF2ED2963@indierockmedia.com>
Message-ID: <8DD20391-FA37-4B6C-8CC3-5AC78542F5A6@aaronbedra.com>

Jerrod,

Have you looked into oauth?  I am not 100% sure if Flickr has full  
support yet, but it is definitely in the pipeline.  Oauth should be a  
great way to accomplish authentication against the flickr api and  
_should_ allow you the flexibility of per user auth without making  
users give you more information than you need.

For more info on oauth visit http://oauth.net.  Flickr's blog does  
talk about oauth implementation but I haven't looked into their  
implementation yet.

Just a thought,

Aaron


On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Jerrod Blavos wrote:

> Thanks, but i did look at that. they authenticate with flickr once  
> and appear to cache the token for the app owner, and then allow  
> users to look up their photos using their flickr id.  this allows  
> only public photos to be accessed for each user.
>
> what im attempting to do is to allow each user in my application to  
> access photosets and photos from their flickr account (and only  
> their account, with lovdbyless i could put anyones flickr id in. and  
> that just seems wrong), and to do this i need to store and pass a  
> token back for each user.
>
> and it looks like i spoke too soon previously.  rflicker seems to  
> only want to read tokens from disk. if i pass back the token i have  
> saved in the db, it looks for a file on the filesystem with that  
> name, which is just weird.
>
> -
>
> On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Brenner, Jonathon wrote:
>
>> Lovd By Less supports it. Check it out at
>> http://github.com/stevenbristol/lovd-by-less/tree/master.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org
>> [mailto:raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Jerrod
>> Blavos
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:20 AM
>> To: raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
>> question/assistance..
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to
>> allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in
>> your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?
>>
>> Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to  
>> authorize
>> one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the rflickr
>> codebase.
>>
>> Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Jerrod
>>
>>
>> Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
>> 106 S. Woodshed Ct.
>> Cary, NC 27513
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From jerrod at indierockmedia.com  Tue Dec 16 12:24:15 2008
From: jerrod at indierockmedia.com (Jerrod Blavos)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:24:15 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
	question/assistance..
In-Reply-To: <689A1EA2-1659-4F3F-8286-A64EF2ED2963@indierockmedia.com>
References: <180E4C78-89EC-4882-A566-4411D5A0835A@indierockmedia.com>
	<91864382B2433640BA2A447041B3DBC3091C8141@wil-exmb01.bbtnet.com>
	<689A1EA2-1659-4F3F-8286-A64EF2ED2963@indierockmedia.com>
Message-ID: <31A759E8-09B4-4110-A59D-D7952AFD05FA@indierockmedia.com>

Ok here's the solution in case anyone is interested.

add this new class to flickr/token_cache.rb

class Flickr::ObjectTokenCache < Flickr::BaseTokenCache

	def initialize(flickr_object)
		@flickr_object = flickr_object
	end

	def load_token
		token = nil
	  @token = Flickr::Token.from_object(@flickr_object)
	  rescue Errno::ENOENT
		nil
	end

	def cache_token(token)
	  nil
	end

end


add this method to class Flickr::Token in flickr/base.rb

	# this looks wierd but it works for now.
	def self.from_object(object, flickr=nil)
		token = object.token
		perms = object.perms
		user  = object.user
		nsid  = object.user.nsid
		username = object.user.username
		realname = object.user.realname

		p = flickr.person_cache_lookup(nsid) if flickr
		p ||= Flickr::Person.new(flickr,nsid,username)
		p.realname=realname
		flickr.person_cache_store(p) if flickr

		return Flickr::Token.new(token,perms,p)
	end


in application.rb add this

   helper_method :flickr_object
   # API objects that get built once per request
   def flickr_object
     flickr_token = (logged_in?) ? ((current_user.flickr_info) ?  
current_user.flickr_info : nil) : nil
     @flickr_object ||= Flickr.new(flickr_token, FLICKR_KEY,  
FLICKR_SECRET)
   end


add this to the User class in app/models/user.rb

   def flickr_info
     return false if flickr_token.blank?
    @flickr_info ||= YAML.load flickr_token
   end

the standard authorize_flickr method in whatever controller handles  
your flickr business logic

   def authorize_flickr
     unless flickr_object.auth.token
       flickr_object.auth.getFrob
       url = flickr_object.auth.login_link
       @flickr_message = "You must visit your <a href='#{url}'>Flickr  
API settings to authorize this application."
     else
       @flickr_photosets = flickr_object.photosets.getList
     end

     render :layout=>"modal_box"
   end

and wherever your callback url is for authorizing flickr make sure you  
store the entire returned token in the db

   def authorize_flickr
     flickr_object.auth.getToken(params[:frob])
     current_user.update_attribute(:flickr_token,  
flickr_object.auth.token)
   end

I think ill set up a sample app on github after this project is wrapped.

amazing how just writing out a message or talking abotu a problem  
makes the solution more clear.

-Jerrod


On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Jerrod Blavos wrote:

> Thanks, but i did look at that. they authenticate with flickr once  
> and appear to cache the token for the app owner, and then allow  
> users to look up their photos using their flickr id.  this allows  
> only public photos to be accessed for each user.
>
> what im attempting to do is to allow each user in my application to  
> access photosets and photos from their flickr account (and only  
> their account, with lovdbyless i could put anyones flickr id in. and  
> that just seems wrong), and to do this i need to store and pass a  
> token back for each user.
>
> and it looks like i spoke too soon previously.  rflicker seems to  
> only want to read tokens from disk. if i pass back the token i have  
> saved in the db, it looks for a file on the filesystem with that  
> name, which is just weird.
>
> -
>
> On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Brenner, Jonathon wrote:
>
>> Lovd By Less supports it. Check it out at
>> http://github.com/stevenbristol/lovd-by-less/tree/master.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org
>> [mailto:raleigh-rb-members-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Jerrod
>> Blavos
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:20 AM
>> To: raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> Subject: [raleigh.rb] rFlickr (r2flickr from github) multi user
>> question/assistance..
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Anyone have an experience with setting up rFlickr in a rails app to
>> allow flickr importing on a user by user basis, meaning each user in
>> your app can store a token and access only their own flickr photos?
>>
>> Everything i have found on the goolge assumes you only want to  
>> authorize
>> one user for the entire app and i dont see anything in the rflickr
>> codebase.
>>
>> Any help or point-in-the-right-direction-ess greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Jerrod
>>
>>
>> Jerrod Blavos | Indierockmedia
>> 106 S. Woodshed Ct.
>> Cary, NC 27513
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From nathaniel at talbott.ws  Tue Dec 16 17:20:48 2008
From: nathaniel at talbott.ws (Nathaniel Talbott)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:20:48 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Is there a better way?
In-Reply-To: <4947B8BF.3050005@gmail.com>
References: <60190a730812160607m55616e40x84e3f5cf361bb027@mail.gmail.com>
	<4947B8BF.3050005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ce336a20812161420u26934567q5b34cee67f8d51db@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Sean Cribbs <seancribbs at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's a classic case for inject.

inject++. I think this'll be a bit more efficient (doesn't create a
new hash every time): https://gist.github.com/36841. Also has a
comment about a concern I have with the split.


-- 
Nathaniel Talbott
<:((><

From nathaniel at talbott.ws  Wed Dec 17 10:25:12 2008
From: nathaniel at talbott.ws (Nathaniel Talbott)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:25:12 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Fukuoka Ruby Award
Message-ID: <4ce336a20812170725q1099a98ci1c9cc2487731b4b3@mail.gmail.com>

I got contacted about this:

  http://www.ruby-award.jp/english.html

Looks like it could be fun, if any of ya'll are interested in
entering. Deadline is Christmas, so there's not much time...

Enjoy,


-- 
Nathaniel Talbott
<:((><

From info at lojic.com  Wed Dec 17 15:28:57 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:28:57 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The Ruby shuffle
Message-ID: <49496109.3090903@lojic.com>

A friend of mine mentioned a little algorithm for shuffling a deck of
cards by splitting it in half and interleaving cards from each half. In
Ruby, I came up with the following:

def shuffle xs
   n = xs.length / 2
   xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten
end

then shortened a bit to compare with various Haskell versions below:

shuffle = lambda {|xs| n = xs.length / 2; xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten }

I know this is a Ruby list, but I thought I'd share the Haskell versions
I collected (mostly from others except for the 1st two) while
experimenting.

I think Ruby compares favorably to Haskell (except for speed) on this
exercise even though Haskell shines on this type of problem.

-- My first Haskell attempt
shuffle1 xs = concat [[fst x, snd x] | x <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length
xs `div` 2) xs)]

-- My second attempt. Create a flatten_tup2 function: [(a,b),(c,d)] =>
[a,b,c,d]
shuffle2 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
     where
       flatten_tup2 [] = []
       flatten_tup2 ((a,b):xs) = a : b : flatten_tup2 xs

-- #haskell help
-- Implement flatten_tup2 with foldr
shuffle3 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
     where
       flatten_tup2 = foldr (\(a,b) c -> a:b:c) []

-- #haskell help
shuffle4 xs = do (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs);
[x,y]

-- #haskell help
shuffle5 xs = [z | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2)
xs), z <- [x,y]]

-- discovered parallel comprehensions. requires: ghci -XParallelListComp
-- using | instead of , causes the generators to operate in parallel
shuffle6 xs = concat [[x,y] | x <- left | y <- right]
     where
       (left, right) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs

-- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
-- compare to shuffle1 - remove fst, snd by pattern matching
shuffle7 xs = concat [[x,y] | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs
`div` 2) xs)]

-- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
-- interleave operator "AFAIK by Mark Jones"
(/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]
[]     /\/ ys = ys
(x:xs) /\/ ys = x : (ys /\/ xs)
shuffle8 xs = uncurry (/\/) $ splitAt (length xs `div` 2) $ xs

-- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
-- using parallel list comprehensions (same as mine above)
shuffle9 xs = concat [[a, b] | a <- l1 | b <- l2]
     where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs

-- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
-- w/o list comprehensions
shuffle10 xs = concat (zipWith (\a b -> [a, b]) l1 l2)
     where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs

-- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
-- different algorithm, but interesting
everySnd []  = []
everySnd [x] = [x]
everySnd (x:_:xs) = x : everySnd xs
shuffle9 xs = everySnd xs ++ everySnd (tail xs)



-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)



From mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:43:26 2008
From: mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com (Mark Bennett)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:43:26 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The Ruby shuffle
In-Reply-To: <b2e941150812171241j2d62942at16a1a08061a5ee77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49496109.3090903@lojic.com>
	<b2e941150812171241j2d62942at16a1a08061a5ee77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b2e941150812171243g28a219f8r9ee025a68f2d933e@mail.gmail.com>

Shoot, thought you were saying that part was Haskell.

Mark

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Mark Bennett
<mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> shuffle = lambda {|xs| n = xs.length / 2; xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).
>>
>> flatten }
>>
>> I know this is a Ruby list, but I thought I'd share the Haskell versions
>> I collected (mostly from others except for the 1st two) while
>> experimenting.
>>
>>
> I'd say that's perfectly good ruby code there.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine mentioned a little algorithm for shuffling a deck of
>> cards by splitting it in half and interleaving cards from each half. In
>> Ruby, I came up with the following:
>>
>> def shuffle xs
>>  n = xs.length / 2
>>  xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten
>> end
>>
>> then shortened a bit to compare with various Haskell versions below:
>>
>> shuffle = lambda {|xs| n = xs.length / 2; xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten
>> }
>>
>> I know this is a Ruby list, but I thought I'd share the Haskell versions
>> I collected (mostly from others except for the 1st two) while
>> experimenting.
>>
>> I think Ruby compares favorably to Haskell (except for speed) on this
>> exercise even though Haskell shines on this type of problem.
>>
>> -- My first Haskell attempt
>> shuffle1 xs = concat [[fst x, snd x] | x <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length
>> xs `div` 2) xs)]
>>
>> -- My second attempt. Create a flatten_tup2 function: [(a,b),(c,d)] =>
>> [a,b,c,d]
>> shuffle2 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
>>    where
>>      flatten_tup2 [] = []
>>      flatten_tup2 ((a,b):xs) = a : b : flatten_tup2 xs
>>
>> -- #haskell help
>> -- Implement flatten_tup2 with foldr
>> shuffle3 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
>>    where
>>      flatten_tup2 = foldr (\(a,b) c -> a:b:c) []
>>
>> -- #haskell help
>> shuffle4 xs = do (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs);
>> [x,y]
>>
>> -- #haskell help
>> shuffle5 xs = [z | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2)
>> xs), z <- [x,y]]
>>
>> -- discovered parallel comprehensions. requires: ghci -XParallelListComp
>> -- using | instead of , causes the generators to operate in parallel
>> shuffle6 xs = concat [[x,y] | x <- left | y <- right]
>>    where
>>      (left, right) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>>
>> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
>> -- compare to shuffle1 - remove fst, snd by pattern matching
>> shuffle7 xs = concat [[x,y] | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs
>> `div` 2) xs)]
>>
>> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
>> -- interleave operator "AFAIK by Mark Jones"
>> (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]
>> []     /\/ ys = ys
>> (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : (ys /\/ xs)
>> shuffle8 xs = uncurry (/\/) $ splitAt (length xs `div` 2) $ xs
>>
>> -- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
>> -- using parallel list comprehensions (same as mine above)
>> shuffle9 xs = concat [[a, b] | a <- l1 | b <- l2]
>>    where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>>
>> -- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
>> -- w/o list comprehensions
>> shuffle10 xs = concat (zipWith (\a b -> [a, b]) l1 l2)
>>    where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>>
>> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
>> -- different algorithm, but interesting
>> everySnd []  = []
>> everySnd [x] = [x]
>> everySnd (x:_:xs) = x : everySnd xs
>> shuffle9 xs = everySnd xs ++ everySnd (tail xs)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Adkins
>> Lojic Technologies, LLC
>> http://lojic.com/
>> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
>> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081217/74220e27/attachment-0001.html>

From mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:41:46 2008
From: mark.bennett.mail at gmail.com (Mark Bennett)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:41:46 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] The Ruby shuffle
In-Reply-To: <49496109.3090903@lojic.com>
References: <49496109.3090903@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <b2e941150812171241j2d62942at16a1a08061a5ee77@mail.gmail.com>

shuffle = lambda {|xs| n = xs.length / 2; xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).
>
> flatten }
>
> I know this is a Ruby list, but I thought I'd share the Haskell versions
> I collected (mostly from others except for the 1st two) while
> experimenting.
>
>
I'd say that's perfectly good ruby code there.

Mark


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine mentioned a little algorithm for shuffling a deck of
> cards by splitting it in half and interleaving cards from each half. In
> Ruby, I came up with the following:
>
> def shuffle xs
>  n = xs.length / 2
>  xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten
> end
>
> then shortened a bit to compare with various Haskell versions below:
>
> shuffle = lambda {|xs| n = xs.length / 2; xs[0...n].zip(xs[n..-1]).flatten
> }
>
> I know this is a Ruby list, but I thought I'd share the Haskell versions
> I collected (mostly from others except for the 1st two) while
> experimenting.
>
> I think Ruby compares favorably to Haskell (except for speed) on this
> exercise even though Haskell shines on this type of problem.
>
> -- My first Haskell attempt
> shuffle1 xs = concat [[fst x, snd x] | x <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length
> xs `div` 2) xs)]
>
> -- My second attempt. Create a flatten_tup2 function: [(a,b),(c,d)] =>
> [a,b,c,d]
> shuffle2 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
>    where
>      flatten_tup2 [] = []
>      flatten_tup2 ((a,b):xs) = a : b : flatten_tup2 xs
>
> -- #haskell help
> -- Implement flatten_tup2 with foldr
> shuffle3 xs = flatten_tup2 (uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs))
>    where
>      flatten_tup2 = foldr (\(a,b) c -> a:b:c) []
>
> -- #haskell help
> shuffle4 xs = do (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs);
> [x,y]
>
> -- #haskell help
> shuffle5 xs = [z | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs `div` 2)
> xs), z <- [x,y]]
>
> -- discovered parallel comprehensions. requires: ghci -XParallelListComp
> -- using | instead of , causes the generators to operate in parallel
> shuffle6 xs = concat [[x,y] | x <- left | y <- right]
>    where
>      (left, right) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>
> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
> -- compare to shuffle1 - remove fst, snd by pattern matching
> shuffle7 xs = concat [[x,y] | (x,y) <- uncurry zip (splitAt (length xs
> `div` 2) xs)]
>
> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
> -- interleave operator "AFAIK by Mark Jones"
> (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]
> []     /\/ ys = ys
> (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : (ys /\/ xs)
> shuffle8 xs = uncurry (/\/) $ splitAt (length xs `div` 2) $ xs
>
> -- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
> -- using parallel list comprehensions (same as mine above)
> shuffle9 xs = concat [[a, b] | a <- l1 | b <- l2]
>    where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>
> -- comp.lang.haskell Lauri Alanko
> -- w/o list comprehensions
> shuffle10 xs = concat (zipWith (\a b -> [a, b]) l1 l2)
>    where (l1, l2) = splitAt (length xs `div` 2) xs
>
> -- comp.lang.haskel, Dirk Thierbach
> -- different algorithm, but interesting
> everySnd []  = []
> everySnd [x] = [x]
> everySnd (x:_:xs) = x : everySnd xs
> shuffle9 xs = everySnd xs ++ everySnd (tail xs)
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Adkins
> Lojic Technologies, LLC
> http://lojic.com/
> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081217/af68e792/attachment.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 10:00:31 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:00:31 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
Message-ID: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to  
let everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later. Our  
webmaster promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how long  
I've made everyone wait for this info, so here you go.

We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an awesome  
set of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including Nathaniel  
Talbott, Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu Halloway) as  
well as a good number of out-of-towners (including Chad Fowler, Neal  
Ford, Venkat Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).

I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say you'll  
get a chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure, Erlang,  
entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.

It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap  
enough to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days  
instead of 3.

Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:

Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
Dates:  February 19-21st
Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
Acteva Link:
http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504

Jared
http://NFJSOne.com
http://AgileArtisans.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081219/8f197250/attachment.html>

From redinger at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 10:07:54 2008
From: redinger at gmail.com (Christopher Redinger)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:07:54 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <681d4e8f0812190707g7a657852h6fb78335166e0102@mail.gmail.com>

Which 2 days is it, 19th & 20th, or 20th & 21st? :)

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to let
> everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later. Our webmaster
> promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how long I've made everyone
> wait for this info, so here you go.
>
> We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an awesome set
> of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including Nathaniel Talbott,
> Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu Halloway) as well as a good
> number of out-of-towners (including Chad Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat
> Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).
>
> I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say you'll get a
> chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure,
> Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.
>
> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap enough
> to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days instead of 3.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:
> Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
> Dates:  February 19-21st
> Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
> Acteva Link:
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504
>
> Jared
> http://NFJSOne.com
> http://AgileArtisans.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
Christopher Redinger
http://www.agiledisciple.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081219/e03eb34f/attachment.html>

From mshiltonj at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 10:18:36 2008
From: mshiltonj at gmail.com (Steven Hilton)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:18:36 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8308260d0812190718wefcd0fegb792bab4e7b0ecda@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome. One question...

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> It'll be a 2 day event ...
and

> Dates:  February 19-21st

This is three days.

-- 
Steven Hilton <mshiltonj at gmail.com>
<http://mshiltonj.com/>

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect
 his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
 will make violent revolution inevitable."   --  John F. Kennedy

"There is no heart so black
  as the black, black heart
  of the phony leper." -- Adrian Monk

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 10:30:09 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:30:09 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <681d4e8f0812190707g7a657852h6fb78335166e0102@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
	<681d4e8f0812190707g7a657852h6fb78335166e0102@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A05D9A4A-78BD-4D23-9E51-E67D034269D9@gmail.com>

Sorry... details and all that. :)

We're going to set up an evening mixer on Thursday evening... maybe  
even a panel of the speakers. Sort of a "get to know everyone" event.  
Then the "real" conference will run Friday and Saturday.

Jared

On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Christopher Redinger wrote:

> Which 2 days is it, 19th & 20th, or 20th & 21st? :)
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to  
> let everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later.  
> Our webmaster promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how  
> long I've made everyone wait for this info, so here you go.
>
> We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an  
> awesome set of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including  
> Nathaniel Talbott, Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu  
> Halloway) as well as a good number of out-of-towners (including Chad  
> Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).
>
> I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say  
> you'll get a chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure,  
> Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.
>
> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap  
> enough to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days  
> instead of 3.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:
>
> Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
> Dates:  February 19-21st
> Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
> Acteva Link:
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504
>
> Jared
> http://NFJSOne.com
> http://AgileArtisans.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
>
>
> -- 
> Christopher Redinger
> http://www.agiledisciple.com
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081219/3b03c696/attachment-0001.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 11:12:48 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:12:48 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <8308260d0812190718wefcd0fegb792bab4e7b0ecda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
	<8308260d0812190718wefcd0fegb792bab4e7b0ecda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2409A8AD-B2D7-4DE4-A79D-C69802CA525E@gmail.com>

I was just checking to see if you read everything! You passed! ;)

Thursday evening is a mixer... then Friday and Saturday are the all  
day events.  I need to update the conference blurb.

Thanks!

Jared

On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Steven Hilton wrote:

> Awesome. One question...
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> It'll be a 2 day event ...
> and
>
>> Dates:  February 19-21st
>
> This is three days.
>
> -- 
> Steven Hilton <mshiltonj at gmail.com>
> <http://mshiltonj.com/>
>
> "It is the duty of the patriot to protect
> his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine
>
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."   --  John F. Kennedy
>
> "There is no heart so black
>  as the black, black heart
>  of the phony leper." -- Adrian Monk
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members


From jim at jimvanfleet.com  Fri Dec 19 21:21:22 2008
From: jim at jimvanfleet.com (Jim Van Fleet)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:21:22 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c537ee140812191821v38717373gebcd1639aa34e029@mail.gmail.com>

Will there be a call for papers, or are all the speakers already booked?

Cheers,

Jim

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to let
> everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later. Our webmaster
> promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how long I've made everyone
> wait for this info, so here you go.
>
> We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an awesome set
> of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including Nathaniel Talbott,
> Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu Halloway) as well as a good
> number of out-of-towners (including Chad Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat
> Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).
>
> I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say you'll get a
> chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure,
> Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.
>
> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap enough
> to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days instead of 3.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:
> Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
> Dates:  February 19-21st
> Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
> Acteva Link:
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504
>
> Jared
> http://NFJSOne.com
> http://AgileArtisans.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081219/576d72e2/attachment.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 00:05:39 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:05:39 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <c537ee140812191821v38717373gebcd1639aa34e029@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
	<c537ee140812191821v38717373gebcd1639aa34e029@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C82BFC-6A53-4F66-B552-F46EE1E89621@gmail.com>

The speakers are set (sorry!), but we'll have a lightning talk round.

Jared


On Dec 19, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Jim Van Fleet wrote:

> Will there be a call for papers, or are all the speakers already  
> booked?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jim
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to  
> let everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later.  
> Our webmaster promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how  
> long I've made everyone wait for this info, so here you go.
>
> We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an  
> awesome set of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including  
> Nathaniel Talbott, Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu  
> Halloway) as well as a good number of out-of-towners (including Chad  
> Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).
>
> I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say  
> you'll get a chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure,  
> Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.
>
> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap  
> enough to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days  
> instead of 3.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:
>
> Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
> Dates:  February 19-21st
> Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
> Acteva Link:
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504
>
> Jared
> http://NFJSOne.com
> http://AgileArtisans.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081220/17b6974e/attachment.html>

From steve at iannopollo.com  Fri Dec 19 22:26:26 2008
From: steve at iannopollo.com (Steve Iannopollo)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:26:26 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D09ACB7-0EBF-44EC-84F8-EBD41C6DF53B@iannopollo.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081219/c5206d88/attachment.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 13:22:53 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:22:53 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
References: <2D09ACB7-0EBF-44EC-84F8-EBD41C6DF53B@iannopollo.com>
Message-ID: <D2228C7D-979D-439E-AD96-263E521FB43F@gmail.com>


>
>> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap  
>> enough to be affordable for more people
>
> So how come this is 2x the cost of the last RubyConf in Orlando? Do  
> you guys have a nicer venue than that sweet resort? Are the speakers  
> being paid big bucks? Are you guys making windfall-profits? :-) Not  
> to be a jerk (on purpose), just curious. Thanks!
>

There's no such thing as a bad question. ;)

First, I know nothing about the financials behind Ruby Conf, so I  
can't really speak to that question very well. I also didn't make it  
to RubyConf this year :( so I can only judge from the website about  
the facility. I can tell you about us though. :)

Better venue than a resort property in Orlando? This event is in  
RTP.... we tried hard to find a lazy river locally, but they were all  
booked up. ;)

Big bucks? No one makes big bucks at these types of conferences. (I  
wish we did! I speak at a lot of conferences and still need a day  
job.) Most of the speakers involved do this because they love the  
language and the community.

Windfall profits? If you price out what the hotels generally charge,  
it's amazing how much of conference fees go right into the facility.  
Sometimes the facility is cheap, but the food is insanely priced, etc,  
but the facility is the driving cost behind most conferences.

We are a for-profit company, but this event isn't going to be lining  
pockets. In fact, the only reason we're having one locally is because  
I'm local. Some of my partners weren't sure if North Carolina had the  
market for this type of event. We'll have more in larger areas (like  
DC, Boston, Chicago, etc).

When you have an event that sells out, there are profits made.  
Sometimes, in a not-for-profit situation, that results in lower  
conference fees. This is a first time event. If we break even, I'll be  
very happy. You've got to have economies of scale to make it viable.

All that being said, there are a few things we do very differently  
from most conferences.

First, we cap all events at 250 attendees. We're not interested in  
getting lost in a sea of people and it's really hard to do the bigger  
events well. Some groups pull it off, some don't.

Second, we have an extremely tight filter on our speaker invites. Many  
times you end up in a "roll the dice" situation where you don't know  
if a speaker will be any good. ~Everyone~ we invite is a top shelf,  
experienced speaker who has something to say and knows how to say it  
well.

Third, there's no "speaker lounge". At a large conference, speakers  
need a place to retreat from the constant questions. At our events,  
the speakers mingle. You'll eat meals with them, see them in other  
talks, etc.

This is the model we've used at the No Fluff Just Stuff symposiums for  
several years and found it to be very effective. I know a number of  
you have attended them (and some have spoken). That's what we're  
trying to duplicate, but I really love Ruby and want to bring the  
model into this space as well. And this pricing is in line with the  
NFJS fees.

I guess the short answer is, Yes, we are a for profit company and Yes,  
I hope to bring in enough to make this a sustainable event that can  
travel all the country.

How's that for a long answer to a short question? :)

Jared
http://AgileArtisans.com
http://NFJSOne.com


From info at lojic.com  Sat Dec 20 13:33:52 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:33:52 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <2D09ACB7-0EBF-44EC-84F8-EBD41C6DF53B@iannopollo.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
	<2D09ACB7-0EBF-44EC-84F8-EBD41C6DF53B@iannopollo.com>
Message-ID: <494D3A90.9040806@lojic.com>

Steve Iannopollo wrote, On 12/19/08 10:26 PM:
>> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap enough to 
>> be affordable for more people
> 
> So how come this is 2x the cost of the last RubyConf in Orlando? Do you guys 
> have a nicer venue than that sweet resort? Are the speakers being paid big 
> bucks? Are you guys making windfall-profits? :-) Not to be a jerk (on purpose), 
> just curious. Thanks!

I expect others share your curiosity :)

My first impression was that the price seemed quite high for not being a 
RubyConf or RailsConf. But I'm not much of a conference attendee, so I 
may be atypical.

-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)



From thomas at ravinggenius.com  Mon Dec 22 13:44:11 2008
From: thomas at ravinggenius.com (Thomas Ingram)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:44:11 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
Message-ID: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out how (or if) Ruby does variable variables.
They are very nice for not needing a big, stupid switch statement.
This pastie hopefully illustrates what I'm trying to do.

http://www.pastie.org/345018

-- 
Thomas ><>
Raving Genius - foaming at the brain
m: 919 449.6305
e: thomas at ravinggenius.com
w: http://log.ravinggenius.com/
wii: 6751 1365 9898 2150

From mike at hales.ws  Mon Dec 22 13:53:15 2008
From: mike at hales.ws (Michael Hale)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:53:15 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60190a730812221053s20d469d5lbb527c272e560682@mail.gmail.com>

For your example 1 you could grab the method and call it later:
http://gist.github.com/39080

def foo
  puts 'You called foo!';
end

method = self.method(:foo)

#These do the same thing
method.call
foo

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Thomas Ingram <thomas at ravinggenius.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out how (or if) Ruby does variable variables.
> They are very nice for not needing a big, stupid switch statement.
> This pastie hopefully illustrates what I'm trying to do.
>
> http://www.pastie.org/345018
>
> --
> Thomas ><>
> Raving Genius - foaming at the brain
> m: 919 449.6305
> e: thomas at ravinggenius.com
> w: http://log.ravinggenius.com/
> wii: 6751 1365 9898 2150
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From info at lojic.com  Mon Dec 22 14:13:32 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:13:32 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494FE6DC.80906@lojic.com>

Thomas Ingram wrote, On 12/22/08 1:44 PM:
> I'm trying to figure out how (or if) Ruby does variable variables.
> They are very nice for not needing a big, stupid switch statement.
> This pastie hopefully illustrates what I'm trying to do.
> 
> http://www.pastie.org/345018

If you provided more context regarding what you're trying to accomplish,
folks can provide more help. For example, I try to avoid 'eval', and I
expect there's a better way to accomplish what you want if you provide
more detail, but the following is one example which closely mimics the PHP.

--- snip ---
# Example 1
def foo
   puts 'You called foo()!'
end

bar = 'foo'
send(bar)

# Example 3 (covers ex. 2)
class FooBar
   def call_me
     puts 'Ring, ring'
   end
end

fb = FooBar.new
object_name = 'fb'
method_name = 'call_me'

eval(object_name).send(method_name)
--- snip ---

Would you prefer specifying the class via a string instead of a variable
i.e. class_name='FooBar' ?

Brian

-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)



From info at lojic.com  Mon Dec 22 14:17:08 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:17:08 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <494FE6DC.80906@lojic.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<494FE6DC.80906@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <494FE7B4.2030405@lojic.com>

Brian Adkins wrote, On 12/22/08 2:13 PM:
> Thomas Ingram wrote, On 12/22/08 1:44 PM:
>> I'm trying to figure out how (or if) Ruby does variable variables.
>> They are very nice for not needing a big, stupid switch statement.
>> This pastie hopefully illustrates what I'm trying to do.
>>
>> http://www.pastie.org/345018
> 
> If you provided more context regarding what you're trying to accomplish,
> folks can provide more help. For example, I try to avoid 'eval', and I
> expect there's a better way to accomplish what you want if you provide
> more detail, but the following is one example which closely mimics the PHP.
> 
> --- snip ---
> # Example 1
> def foo
>   puts 'You called foo()!'
> end
> 
> bar = 'foo'
> send(bar)
> 
> # Example 3 (covers ex. 2)
> class FooBar
>   def call_me
>     puts 'Ring, ring'
>   end
> end
> 
> fb = FooBar.new
> object_name = 'fb'
> method_name = 'call_me'
> 
> eval(object_name).send(method_name)
> --- snip ---
> 
> Would you prefer specifying the class via a string instead of a variable
> i.e. class_name='FooBar' ?

That sentence isn't very clear :). I meant, would you rather specify the 
name of the class instead of the name of a variable?

> Brian
> 

-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)



From tj at stank.us  Mon Dec 22 15:02:12 2008
From: tj at stank.us (TJ Stankus)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:02:12 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm trying to figure out how (or if) Ruby does variable variables.
> They are very nice for not needing a big, stupid switch statement.
> This pastie hopefully illustrates what I'm trying to do.
>
> http://www.pastie.org/345018

More context would help for this particular problem, but in general
whenever you think 'big, stupid switch statement' stop and consider if
a refactoring is in order. The classic Refactoring book has a section
called Replace Conditional with Polymorphism. In Ruby, it's simpler
cause we have duck typing. This book has a Ruby implementation:
http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780321603968

HTH

From thomas at ravinggenius.com  Mon Dec 22 17:56:53 2008
From: thomas at ravinggenius.com (Thomas Ingram)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:56:53 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>

In this particular case, I'm building a CMS with Merb. Content is to
be stored as nodes, with each node populated by multiple different
parts. I am planning to have a helper method for each kind of part, so
that I can do something like this in my node view.

@node.parts.each do |part|
  call("#{part.type.name.underscore}", part)
end

Here each part would have a type, and the helper method would be the
underscored version of that type's name.

The obvious problem with the above snippet it that call is not
available. Is there away around this? Thanks.

> More context would help for this particular problem

-- 
Thomas ><>
Raving Genius - foaming at the brain
m: 919 449.6305
e: thomas at ravinggenius.com
w: http://log.ravinggenius.com/
wii: 6751 1365 9898 2150

From seancribbs at gmail.com  Mon Dec 22 18:16:30 2008
From: seancribbs at gmail.com (Sean Cribbs)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:16:30 -0600
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49501FCE.3010408@gmail.com>

As someone else said, I think the "method" or "send" way would be best:

method(part.type.name.underscore.intern).call(part)

send(part.type.name.underscore.intern, part)

Sean

Thomas Ingram wrote:
> In this particular case, I'm building a CMS with Merb. Content is to
> be stored as nodes, with each node populated by multiple different
> parts. I am planning to have a helper method for each kind of part, so
> that I can do something like this in my node view.
>
> @node.parts.each do |part|
>   call("#{part.type.name.underscore}", part)
> end
>
> Here each part would have a type, and the helper method would be the
> underscored version of that type's name.
>
> The obvious problem with the above snippet it that call is not
> available. Is there away around this? Thanks.
>
>   
>> More context would help for this particular problem
>>     
>
>   

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081222/4640f6b7/attachment.html>

From rick.denatale at gmail.com  Mon Dec 22 21:11:06 2008
From: rick.denatale at gmail.com (Rick DeNatale)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:11:06 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Thomas Ingram <thomas at ravinggenius.com>wrote:

> In this particular case, I'm building a CMS with Merb. Content is to
> be stored as nodes, with each node populated by multiple different
> parts. I am planning to have a helper method for each kind of part, so
> that I can do something like this in my node view.
>
> @node.parts.each do |part|
>  call("#{part.type.name.underscore}", part)
> end
>
> Here each part would have a type, and the helper method would be the
> underscored version of that type's name.


Maybe it's just me, but if feels like you are going out of your way to do
anti-object oriented programming here, and you seem to be wanting to make
the view too smart.

Trying to make Ruby 'work' like a language like PHP, or PERL, which allow
you to construct objects out of lower-level language concepts without
providing first-class support for objects, can easily spin your thoughts in
circles, better to approach the design with the flow of Ruby.

Instead of a helper method named after the 'type' of part, why not express
the different part types as different classes (if you aren't already doing
that already)  and use polymorphism.  I'm not sure what the helper function
is doing in your case, so for want of a better name, let's just call it
something like render

class PartType1
   def render
      # specific rendering for type 1 part
   end
end

class PartType2
    def render
       # specific rendering for type 2 part
    end
end

# etc

@node.parts.each do |part|
    part.render
end

In fact, depending on the circumstances, I'd likely move that last part from
the view into the class implementing the overall node:

class SomeOrOnlyNodeClass

def render
    # do node stuff if needed before rendering parts
    parts.each {|part| part.render}
    # do node stuff if needd after rendering parts
end

so that the view simply became

@node.render

Hopefully this makes some sense, as other's have pointed out it's difficult
to talk about this at such an abstract level.

By the way there are some basic patterns, like Composite lurking here.

-- 
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RubyRedRick
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081222/6fb89ba2/attachment-0001.html>

From steve at iannopollo.com  Tue Dec 23 00:31:04 2008
From: steve at iannopollo.com (Steve Iannopollo)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:31:04 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>

> class PartType1
>    def render
>       # specific rendering for type 1 part
>    end
> end
>
> class PartType2
>     def render
>        # specific rendering for type 2 part
>     end
> end

Something you may also wish to keep in mind is that ideally we want to  
keep the MVC architecture, and doing the render method on the class of  
the model will blur the line between model and view. You could do  
something like the following that would give you the same object  
oriented feel to it:

module Parts
   class PartType1
     def render(part)
       # rendering code
     end
   end

   class PartType2
     def render(part)
       # other rendering code
     end
   end
end

Ideally that would live in a view helper somewhere. Then in your view  
you can do something like:

@node.parts.each do |part|
   Parts.const_get(part.class.name).render(part)
end

This way you are decoupling the view of your model from the code that  
implements your model, while still explicitly declaring how each part  
should be rendered.

I very much agree with Rick: "better to approach the design with the  
flow of Ruby".

-Steve

From rick.denatale at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 07:43:25 2008
From: rick.denatale at gmail.com (Rick DeNatale)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:43:25 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>
Message-ID: <deb2337a0812230443v6031f58bxef0449bfa45385ca@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I wasn't happy with my choice of render, but lacking more context, I
failed to come up with a better example.

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Steve Iannopollo <steve at iannopollo.com>wrote:

> class PartType1
>>   def render
>>      # specific rendering for type 1 part
>>   end
>> end
>>
>> class PartType2
>>    def render
>>       # specific rendering for type 2 part
>>    end
>> end
>>
>
> Something you may also wish to keep in mind is that ideally we want to keep
> the MVC architecture, and doing the render method on the class of the model
> will blur the line between model and view. You could do something like the
> following that would give you the same object oriented feel to it:
>
> module Parts
>  class PartType1
>    def render(part)
>      # rendering code
>    end
>  end
>
>  class PartType2
>    def render(part)
>      # other rendering code
>    end
>  end
> end
>
> Ideally that would live in a view helper somewhere. Then in your view you
> can do something like:
>
> @node.parts.each do |part|
>  Parts.const_get(part.class.name).render(part)
> end
>
> This way you are decoupling the view of your model from the code that
> implements your model, while still explicitly declaring how each part should
> be rendered.
>
> I very much agree with Rick: "better to approach the design with the flow
> of Ruby".
>
> -Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>



-- 
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RubyRedRick
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081223/9ead188c/attachment.html>

From thomas at ravinggenius.com  Tue Dec 23 14:38:47 2008
From: thomas at ravinggenius.com (Thomas Ingram)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:38:47 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <deb2337a0812230443v6031f58bxef0449bfa45385ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>
	<deb2337a0812230443v6031f58bxef0449bfa45385ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51ce9ce10812231138q4f62e508tf485b08113452221@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for your suggestions. I do want to follow the Ruby flow,
while making the system I'm building easy to customize. As for
context, I am building a CMS that allows for administrator-defined
content types (nodes). These nodes are assembled with various pieces
(parts). Parts can be lists, tables, dates, numbers et cetera. I am
building an interface to define each of these in the database. This
way whoever is in charge of the website can easily put together as
many new custom nodes or parts as they want, without having to code
anything more than a view helper method to render any new new parts
types.

-- 
Thomas ><>
Raving Genius - foaming at the brain
m: 919 449.6305
e: thomas at ravinggenius.com
w: http://log.ravinggenius.com/
wii: 6751 1365 9898 2150

From info at lojic.com  Tue Dec 23 18:09:21 2008
From: info at lojic.com (Brian Adkins)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:09:21 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812231138q4f62e508tf485b08113452221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>	<deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>	<20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>	<deb2337a0812230443v6031f58bxef0449bfa45385ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812231138q4f62e508tf485b08113452221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49516FA1.4040803@lojic.com>

Thomas Ingram wrote, On 12/23/08 2:38 PM:
> Thank you all for your suggestions. I do want to follow the Ruby flow,
> while making the system I'm building easy to customize. As for
> context, I am building a CMS that allows for administrator-defined
> content types (nodes). These nodes are assembled with various pieces
> (parts). Parts can be lists, tables, dates, numbers et cetera. I am
> building an interface to define each of these in the database. This
> way whoever is in charge of the website can easily put together as
> many new custom nodes or parts as they want, without having to code
> anything more than a view helper method to render any new new parts
> types.

I assume you've looked at Radiant CMS. If not, I expect you might learn 
some helpful things by doing so.

Brian

-- 
Brian Adkins
Lojic Technologies, LLC
http://lojic.com/
919-946-7547 (mobile)



From korebantic at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 19:46:20 2008
From: korebantic at gmail.com (korebantic)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:46:20 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Variable variables
In-Reply-To: <49516FA1.4040803@lojic.com>
References: <51ce9ce10812221044x7ba41cecm1622afadc24e59f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f25a5bb60812221202y3165411ega30c9394ef482543@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812221456h363d4d01i38273063e260e7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb2337a0812221811u2f21760bp2fecf989871a68dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20A4D9BD-21CD-4518-A101-069B8C713B9E@iannopollo.com>
	<deb2337a0812230443v6031f58bxef0449bfa45385ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812231138q4f62e508tf485b08113452221@mail.gmail.com>
	<49516FA1.4040803@lojic.com>
Message-ID: <16e20a2b0812231646n4fcffb0t3de642a42b655bd1@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Radiant

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Brian Adkins <info at lojic.com> wrote:
> Thomas Ingram wrote, On 12/23/08 2:38 PM:
>>
>> Thank you all for your suggestions. I do want to follow the Ruby flow,
>> while making the system I'm building easy to customize. As for
>> context, I am building a CMS that allows for administrator-defined
>> content types (nodes). These nodes are assembled with various pieces
>> (parts). Parts can be lists, tables, dates, numbers et cetera. I am
>> building an interface to define each of these in the database. This
>> way whoever is in charge of the website can easily put together as
>> many new custom nodes or parts as they want, without having to code
>> anything more than a view helper method to render any new new parts
>> types.
>
> I assume you've looked at Radiant CMS. If not, I expect you might learn some
> helpful things by doing so.
>
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian Adkins
> Lojic Technologies, LLC
> http://lojic.com/
> 919-946-7547 (mobile)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From paulsanfordfriedman at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 29 10:46:45 2008
From: paulsanfordfriedman at yahoo.com (Paul Friedman)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 07:46:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <688607.64768.qm@web30803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Jared, 

Any news on the website? and if this is not yet up, could you post a list of the conference topics/agenda?

Thanks, 
Paul Friedman



________________________________
From: Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com>
To: The mailing list of raleigh.rb <raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:00:31 AM
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb

Hi everyone,

We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to let everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later. Our webmaster promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how long I've made everyone wait for this info, so here you go.

We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an awesome set of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including Nathaniel Talbott, Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu Halloway) as well as a good number of out-of-towners (including Chad Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).

I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say you'll get a chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure, Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.

It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap enough to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days instead of 3.

Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:

Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
Dates:  February 19-21st
Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
Acteva Link:
http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504

Jared
http://NFJSOne.com
http://AgileArtisans.com



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081229/79a38f5b/attachment.html>

From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 11:51:12 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:51:12 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
In-Reply-To: <688607.64768.qm@web30803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <EA1B6C3F-2846-4336-8AF3-9444F4D7AED5@gmail.com>
	<688607.64768.qm@web30803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <37062B07-BF58-476C-AC7A-6A3701757DE7@gmail.com>

We're almost done. The webmaster promises me this afternoon. I'm  
reviewing the content right now.

I'll send the link out when it's available.

Jared


On Dec 29, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Paul Friedman wrote:

> Hello Jared,
>
> Any news on the website? and if this is not yet up, could you post a  
> list of the conference topics/agenda?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul Friedman
>
> From: Jared <jareds.lists at gmail.com>
> To: The mailing list of raleigh.rb <raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:00:31 AM
> Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby conference in Feb
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We're still putting together scheduling information, but I wanted to  
> let everyone know about the conference earlier rather than later.  
> Our webmaster promises a real site next week. ;) I'm realizing how  
> long I've made everyone wait for this info, so here you go.
>
> We'll be local, in RTP. W'll have 3 concurrent tracks, with an  
> awesome set of speakers. We're ranging from local celebs (including  
> Nathaniel Talbott, Matt Bass, Justin Gehtland, Kevin Smith and Stu  
> Halloway) as well as a good number of out-of-towners (including Chad  
> Fowler, Neal Ford, Venkat Subramaniam, David Bock, and a few more).
>
> I'm scheduling it as a Ruby-centric geek fest, which is to say  
> you'll get a chance to learn about Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Clojure,  
> Erlang, entrepreneurial tips, and so on. It should be a lot of fun.
>
> It'll be a 2 day event and cost $550. We're trying to keep it cheap  
> enough to be affordable for more people, which is why is it's 2 days  
> instead of 3.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions... the details are:
>
> Name:  RubyRx 2009 - RTP
> Dates:  February 19-21st
> Location:  Durham, NC - Marriott RTP
> Acteva Link:
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=170504
>
> Jared
> http://NFJSOne.com
> http://AgileArtisans.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081230/ba48ef87/attachment-0001.html>

From nathaniel at talbott.ws  Tue Dec 30 15:11:00 2008
From: nathaniel at talbott.ws (Nathaniel Talbott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:11:00 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
Message-ID: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>

Would ya'll rather do Hack Night this week as it would normally be, or
next week?


-- 
Nathaniel Talbott
<:((><

From thomas at ravinggenius.com  Tue Dec 30 16:12:19 2008
From: thomas at ravinggenius.com (Thomas Ingram)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:12:19 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
In-Reply-To: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51ce9ce10812301312q305b6c5dr93027dd0b4d44b79@mail.gmail.com>

Either one would be fine with me, though we might have more turnout on
the 8th. I'll be happy as long as we have one, since I'm hoping to get
some input on a project. :)

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Nathaniel Talbott <nathaniel at talbott.ws> wrote:
>
> Would ya'll rather do Hack Night this week as it would normally be, or
> next week?

--
Thomas ><>
Raving Genius? - foaming at the brain?
m: 919 449.6305
e: thomas at ravinggenius.com
w: http://log.ravinggenius.com/
wii: 6751 1365 9898 2150

From belucid at acm.org  Tue Dec 30 16:18:20 2008
From: belucid at acm.org (Sean Johnson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:18:20 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
In-Reply-To: <51ce9ce10812301312q305b6c5dr93027dd0b4d44b79@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
	<51ce9ce10812301312q305b6c5dr93027dd0b4d44b79@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFF5BE74-56C2-46B6-900C-A1E1537F8E29@acm.org>

I vote for the 1st. I have hockey every Thursday so I never get to go  
to hack night and I was looking forward to my first one.

__________
Sean Johnson
belucid at acm.org

BubbleTimer - Achieve your goals through better time management.
http://bubbletimer.com/

Art of the Product- A blog about all the decisions that go into  
creating a software product.
http://artoftheproduct.com/





From jareds.lists at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 23:19:21 2008
From: jareds.lists at gmail.com (Jared Richardson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:19:21 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Local Ruby Conference web site is up
Message-ID: <1af59b110812302019v6eaf8847t52b9704ef3fca44f@mail.gmail.com>

It's finally up and running!

http://www.nfjsone.com/conference/raleigh/2008/02/index.html

We may end up switching out Justin G. for another speaker and tweaking out
the schedule for a keynote or two, but I wanted to post it sooner rather
than later.

Jared
http://NFJSOne.com
http://AgileArtisans.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/raleigh-rb-members/attachments/20081230/de37969e/attachment.html>

From seancribbs at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 12:22:14 2008
From: seancribbs at gmail.com (Sean Cribbs)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:22:14 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
In-Reply-To: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495BAA46.1070408@gmail.com>

Nathaniel Talbott wrote:
> Would ya'll rather do Hack Night this week as it would normally be, or
> next week?
>
>
>   
I wouldn't mind tomorrow, but I wonder whether Panera will be open.  The 
8th is Erlang hack night.

Sean

From mark at 37signals.com  Wed Dec 31 12:22:37 2008
From: mark at 37signals.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:22:37 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
In-Reply-To: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a50b71e0812310922u4dc153d9t32c5b4aec64a7705@mail.gmail.com>

I vote for the 1st, Erlang hack night is next week on Thursday night
and I'd hate to have to choose.

-Mark

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Nathaniel Talbott <nathaniel at talbott.ws> wrote:
> Would ya'll rather do Hack Night this week as it would normally be, or
> next week?
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Talbott
> <:((><
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>

From mike at hales.ws  Wed Dec 31 13:08:16 2008
From: mike at hales.ws (Michael Hale)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:08:16 -0500
Subject: [raleigh.rb] Quick Poll: Hack Night on the 1st or the 8th?
In-Reply-To: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ce336a20812301211w51df1e8fk5cea50a135115a91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60190a730812311008g2a641c8eh5e75f3514801d9e3@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for 1st.

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Nathaniel Talbott <nathaniel at talbott.ws> wrote:
> Would ya'll rather do Hack Night this week as it would normally be, or
> next week?
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Talbott
> <:((><
> _______________________________________________
> raleigh-rb-members mailing list
> raleigh-rb-members at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/raleigh-rb-members
>