From ry at tinyclouds.org  Mon Oct  1 19:04:36 2007
From: ry at tinyclouds.org (ry dahl)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 01:04:36 +0200
Subject: Philosophical Web Framework Discussion Group
Message-ID: <21ee31950710011604m7841fe28y354b87565dfdb6b3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I created a Google Group
http://groups.google.com/group/web-framework-architecture
for discussing platform independent web-framework (or web-server)
architectures. Everyone can agree that Rail's style MVC design is not
the end-all web development platform but merely a leap forward in our
ideas of how to best work with HTT protocol. With tools like Ruby,
Mongrel, and Rack, sitting down to code your own full-featured web
server/framework is hardly more than a 3 day activity but throwing
around API ideas is still much easier in english than in code. Perhaps
we can discover a truly elegant API / architecture to construct
http-based applications if enough ideas are put down for discussion.

ry

From chris at oxdi.eu  Thu Oct  4 07:20:09 2007
From: chris at oxdi.eu (Chris Farmiloe)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:20:09 +0100
Subject: Proposed API change for respond_to
In-Reply-To: <92C4C79A-A922-42D4-B078-6686B7778AB2@oxdi.eu>
References: <4725AEF0-3E7B-4150-9528-93B298977B75@gweezlebur.com>
	<2CA64E1D-966F-4894-8C8C-7BBECE14E1B8@hasmanythrough.com>
	<CBDFAF27-AD78-4E2A-92F4-855BC0CA20BE@gweezlebur.com>
	<21ee31950709201021s4110c09ck5ed45786c94f515a@mail.gmail.com>
	<21ee31950709201113t75a5e0d6wfb72e5e3c871a5a8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4236C63-20D7-4ED9-9EC6-BF8F46A424F4@smokinggun.com>
	<21ee31950709201313m5c7bd232o6032a2d57ede6db0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9AC1CAB9-968D-4983-883A-1A0D9B1D823E@engineyard.com>
	<D4E6060B-BE95-4291-8A4C-E13F70993230@gmail.com>
	<92C4C79A-A922-42D4-B078-6686B7778AB2@oxdi.eu>
Message-ID: <1FA572BB-0669-4C71-8333-F983392A3D31@oxdi.eu>


Has anyone had any more thoughts on what is to be done with respond_to?
I'm using it quite a lot now, and it really doesn't feel great,  
especially when you have quite a large action that has many responses.


?

I really liked the ideas with actions as classes... and was playing  
with syntax, for a router and app layout ... attached should be a  
prettymuch barebones app with some comments if anyone is interested.

My routing idea basically hands over most of the routing logic to the  
app developer and simply provides a frame to say

"if a url matches this regex"..."run this block"... "I expect to get  
an action class back"

this would make the router code in any framework very small/fast and  
easy to follow, and put all the routing power in the hands of the  
dev, who wouldn't have to learn any special syntax.




Regards

Farms.
Design & Dev


Oxygen.
http://www.oxdi.eu




On 22 Sep 2007, at 13:34, Chris Farmiloe wrote:

>
>
>
> On 21 Sep 2007, at 21:22, Duane Johnson wrote:
>>  With this architecture, we could take
>> advantage of inheritance in the OO way (as well as map exceptions to
>> actions the OO way):
>
> I think this is an interesting point!
>
>
>
> With more of my projects taking the REST view on the world, I'll  
> often have a base controller with common create/update/show/delete  
> methods, that I then overide if they need modifying.
>
> By taking an approach where actions are classes, this situation  
> might be improved.
>
> Worth thinking about ... but is quite a step away from the current  
> "way" that it's not going to be an easy switch.
>
> might the idea maybe be to have:
>
> app/controllers/users/index.rb
>
> class Users::Index < Users::Action
> 	def to_html
> 		render
> 	end
>
> 	def to_xml
> 		'<xml/>'
> 	end
> end
>
> which then renders the template at
>
> app/views/users/index.html.erb
>
>
> where Users::Action is the base "action" class for users (where you  
> would put all your methods that all user actions require) and  
> Users::Action is inherited from Application::Action (where all the  
> app-level methods are) which is a Merb::Action
>
> I think the GetAction idea is poor and all that sort of logic  
> should stay in the router code.
>
> I like the ideas of the matching up of the action.rb file and the  
> template.erb, but I'm not entirly convinced, the directory  
> structures in /controller and /views would be nicely mirrored.
>
>
> anyway this is all very theoretical, more things for the _ry- 
> experimental-playground-branch ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Farms.
>
>

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From merb at dusty.name  Tue Oct  9 14:21:17 2007
From: merb at dusty.name (Dusty Doris)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:21:17 -0400
Subject: mutex
Message-ID: <e9e3ad7b0710091121y1fc6a55ep299430b1bd2c5dce@mail.gmail.com>

Few quick questions.

What is the risk of turning off the mutex lock?  I have a particular
controller which fires off snmpwalks/gets to pull back data.  It works
great if everything is up, but when I test against a hung snmp server,
I notice that lock getting in the way of other requests.

I have just ran a test with mutex turned off and it seems to work
great.  But, I was wondering what the risk is of me doing that.

In addition, I am using activerecord right now, in other controllers.
Can you turn off the lock per controller?   I could switch to sequel
if that made a difference, as I see a lot of reference to AR when
talking about the lock.

Or, is there a better way?  I've just started looking briefly and see
that I can return a Proc object and let mongrel take care of that in a
thread for me, or run the render_deferred command which I'm just
guessing is doing the same thing.  Would it be smarter for me to
starting looking at something in that direction?

Thanks for any insight!

Dusty Doris

From kevwil at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 15:18:44 2007
From: kevwil at gmail.com (Kevin Williams)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:18:44 -0600
Subject: [Slightly OT] MS MVC taking slight hints from Merb
Message-ID: <683a886f0710091218i48829320gae31666bca124517@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ScottGuMVCPresentationAndScottHaScreencastFromALTNETConference.aspx

In Scott Guthrie's talk (about 43:30) he mentions requiring the render
call as a convention.

Interesting to see Merb influence Microsoft. :)

-- 
Cheers,

Kevin Williams
http://kevwil.com/
http://www.almostserio.us/
http://kevwil.jaiku.com/

From boss at topfunky.com  Sat Oct 13 14:59:46 2007
From: boss at topfunky.com (Geoffrey Grosenbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:59:46 -0700
Subject: Formatted Routes?
Message-ID: <15754f7e0710131159v3056ab29j4100c8719df496a7@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone using formats with the url generator in trunk? I can't
figure it out and it seems to be unimplemented in the router code.

I want to do something like

  url(:articles, :format => "xml")
  # => /articles.xml

or

  url(:formatted_articles, :format => "xml")

-- 
Geoffrey Grosenbach
........................
PeepCode Screencasts
http://peepcode.com

From chris at oxdi.eu  Sat Oct 13 18:10:08 2007
From: chris at oxdi.eu (Chris Farmiloe)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:10:08 +0100
Subject: Formatted Routes?
In-Reply-To: <15754f7e0710131159v3056ab29j4100c8719df496a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15754f7e0710131159v3056ab29j4100c8719df496a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8DD1A2-3AD8-4AD8-BF8E-21AD7CBF32C9@oxdi.eu>


There's a choice of two patches on the trac, take your pick

http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/193

Chris Farmiloe

Oxygen.
   01273 782909

On 13 Oct 2007, at 19:59, Geoffrey Grosenbach wrote:

> Is anyone using formats with the url generator in trunk? I can't
> figure it out and it seems to be unimplemented in the router code.
>
> I want to do something like
>
>   url(:articles, :format => "xml")
>   # => /articles.xml
>
> or
>
>   url(:formatted_articles, :format => "xml")
>
> -- 
> Geoffrey Grosenbach
> ........................
> PeepCode Screencasts
> http://peepcode.com
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel

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From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 05:20:08 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:50:08 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
Message-ID: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>

There's been some discussion on the IRC channel about getting a site  
for Merb going. Since the culture around the project is pretty  
casual, I figured I'd just throw a few ideas together, see what you  
guys think.

So, firstly here are three example pages, just to show off the  
general look and feel.

http://mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/01_frontpage.gif
http://mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/02_contribute.gif
http://mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/03_why.gif

A few notes on the design:

I've gone for something quite clean, with most of the interest coming  
from the abstract shapes in the background. I know some people aren't  
so keen on them, but I can't help it. I think they're nice :)

Ez, I put in tabs for you!

I think the argument for 'Why Merb?' could be presented in a more  
visually interesting way ? perhaps with some illustrations ? but I  
didn't want to get carried away. After all, you guys might hate the  
design.

The colour scheme is totally flexible. This is just the scheme I got  
working after some initial playing about.

The 'logo' is potentially only temporary. I didn't put too much  
thought into it tbh.

So, what do you guys think?

-- 
Luke.Sutton

From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 07:42:50 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:12:50 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0710150226x360b3485rc56ac5d41a4c85ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710150226x360b3485rc56ac5d41a4c85ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8012A564-BBED-4522-B3C9-B35EDCEF1616@gmail.com>


>> The colour scheme is totally flexible. This is just the scheme I got
>> working after some initial playing about.
>>
>
> Also the "space" at both sides of the true content seems too wide,
> hope that could be flexible/float.

Possibly, although I don't think a flexible layout would actually  
work in the case. There isn't content to justify it. We can certainly  
experiment with that though.

>
>> The 'logo' is potentially only temporary. I didn't put too much
>> thought into it tbh.
>
> I like it, but is a bit "too serious". The Merb logo that made to the
> repo (with green colors) is not the same... the differ quite a bit :-P

I didn't have the original logo to hand, and masking out the jpg from  
the logo was fiddly, so I hacked this together. As I say, it's  
temporary. I dunno, it's at least shiney like the green one :)

I wonder, should we be discussing a logo as well?

>> So, what do you guys think?
>>
>
> So far, it's excellent.
>
> I'll rearrange the order of reasons... the ORM independence is quite
> important...

I think I repeated a couple as well. They need a bit of editing I  
reckon.

Thanks for the feedback!

-- 
Luke

From james at plainprograms.com  Mon Oct 15 09:21:34 2007
From: james at plainprograms.com (James Thompson)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:21:34 -0400
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <8012A564-BBED-4522-B3C9-B35EDCEF1616@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710150226x360b3485rc56ac5d41a4c85ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<8012A564-BBED-4522-B3C9-B35EDCEF1616@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e65280500710150621v1a751b32gfbeb10c44a3cfd04@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/15/07, Luke Sutton <luke.sutton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> The colour scheme is totally flexible. This is just the scheme I got
> >> working after some initial playing about.
> >>
> >
> > Also the "space" at both sides of the true content seems too wide,
> > hope that could be flexible/float.
>
> Possibly, although I don't think a flexible layout would actually
> work in the case. There isn't content to justify it. We can certainly
> experiment with that though.


Also, narrowing the column for content makes it more readable. I'd even look
to bring the margin on the content itself in some of the left, offsetting it
from the header. I wouldn't be afraid of the whitespace in this situation
since it is bounded by the overall container of the design, maybe we can
fill it later but I don't think it's a real problem.


>
> >> The 'logo' is potentially only temporary. I didn't put too much
> >> thought into it tbh.
> >
> > I like it, but is a bit "too serious". The Merb logo that made to the
> > repo (with green colors) is not the same... the differ quite a bit :-P
>
> I didn't have the original logo to hand, and masking out the jpg from
> the logo was fiddly, so I hacked this together. As I say, it's
> temporary. I dunno, it's at least shiney like the green one :)
>
> I wonder, should we be discussing a logo as well?



A big "m" should suffice, or not.

>> So, what do you guys think?
> >>
> >
> > So far, it's excellent.
> >
> > I'll rearrange the order of reasons... the ORM independence is quite
> > important...
>
> I think I repeated a couple as well. They need a bit of editing I
> reckon.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> --
> Luke
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel
>
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From kevwil at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:49:43 2007
From: kevwil at gmail.com (Kevin Williams)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:49:43 -0600
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <e65280500710150621v1a751b32gfbeb10c44a3cfd04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710150226x360b3485rc56ac5d41a4c85ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<8012A564-BBED-4522-B3C9-B35EDCEF1616@gmail.com>
	<e65280500710150621v1a751b32gfbeb10c44a3cfd04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683a886f0710150749t75ceead2r32536852596df16a@mail.gmail.com>

I like it. I especially like the marketbabble on the 'why' page. I
wonder what it looks like on the iPhone?

On 10/15/07, James Thompson <james at plainprograms.com> wrote:
> On 10/15/07, Luke Sutton <luke.sutton at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> The colour scheme is totally flexible. This is just the scheme I got
> > >> working after some initial playing about.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Also the "space" at both sides of the true content seems too wide,
> > > hope that could be flexible/float.
> >
> > Possibly, although I don't think a flexible layout would actually
> > work in the case. There isn't content to justify it. We can certainly
> > experiment with that though.
>
> Also, narrowing the column for content makes it more readable. I'd even look
> to bring the margin on the content itself in some of the left, offsetting it
> from the header. I wouldn't be afraid of the whitespace in this situation
> since it is bounded by the overall container of the design, maybe we can
> fill it later but I don't think it's a real problem.
>
> > >
> > >> The 'logo' is potentially only temporary. I didn't put too much
> > >> thought into it tbh.
> > >
> > > I like it, but is a bit "too serious". The Merb logo that made to the
> > > repo (with green colors) is not the same... the differ quite a bit :-P
> >
> > I didn't have the original logo to hand, and masking out the jpg from
> > the logo was fiddly, so I hacked this together. As I say, it's
> > temporary. I dunno, it's at least shiney like the green one :)
> >
> > I wonder, should we be discussing a logo as well?
>
>
>
> A big "m" should suffice, or not.
> > >> So, what do you guys think?
> > >>
> > >
> > > So far, it's excellent.
> > >
> > > I'll rearrange the order of reasons... the ORM independence is quite
> > > important...
> >
> > I think I repeated a couple as well. They need a bit of editing I
> > reckon.
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback!
> >
> > --
> > Luke
> > _______________________________________________
> > Merb-devel mailing list
> > Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel
>
>


-- 
Cheers,

Kevin Williams
http://kevwil.com/
http://www.almostserio.us/
http://kevwil.jaiku.com/

From boss at topfunky.com  Mon Oct 15 12:50:08 2007
From: boss at topfunky.com (Geoffrey Grosenbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:50:08 -0700
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/15/07, Luke Sutton <luke.sutton at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the argument for 'Why Merb?' could be presented in a more
> visually interesting way ? perhaps with some illustrations ? but I
> didn't want to get carried away. After all, you guys might hate the
> design.
>
> So, what do you guys think?

I think it's cleanly designed and well done as a website, but I don't
think it communicates what Merb is about.

When I think of Merb, I think of

* Built for speed
* Lightweight but Powerful
* Minimal core code augmented with plugins

I think we need more of a scientific/industrial look and less of a
fun, pastel look. Maybe even black/white, but definitely more toward
the feel of your designs for DataMapper ( http://datamapper.org/ ).

We want people to look at merbivore.org for 5 seconds and feel that
Merb is solid, capable, and serious. It's not something to mix with
ammonia, unless you're wearing a gas mask.

And we also need Louie on there somewhere.

-- 
Geoffrey Grosenbach
boss at topfunky.com
........................
PeepCode Screencasts
http://peepcode.com

From john at smokinggun.com  Mon Oct 15 13:17:25 2007
From: john at smokinggun.com (John Weir)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:17:25 -0400
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D154A1D8-093E-477C-9613-C299ADCF25AF@smokinggun.com>

first I think posting the mockups was great.  nothing gets a  
discussion going like a mockup.

design based around functionality.
let merb decorate itself.
show code samples right on the homepage*. nicely styled with syntax  
highlighting/color.
if you use graphics use them to illustrate, not as background.

* like it does not render by default.

why i use merb:
doesn't have the locking problem of rails.
works with ActiveRecord or other ORM. mention activerecord.  the  
customer will be like hey I know activerecord!
fast
works with HAML, and other templating systems

but I don't really think MERB is a framework,. it is a solution to  
the framework puzzle.
it is the answer to the C and the R in MVCRT.

Model View Controller Router Test

MERB lets the customer choose the MV and T.  Or maybe that T is an S  
or a B.

And maybe R is part of C.  But, it is a separate layer isn't it?


On Oct 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Geoffrey Grosenbach wrote:

> On 10/15/07, Luke Sutton <luke.sutton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the argument for 'Why Merb?' could be presented in a more
>> visually interesting way ? perhaps with some illustrations ? but I
>> didn't want to get carried away. After all, you guys might hate the
>> design.
>>
>> So, what do you guys think?
>
> I think it's cleanly designed and well done as a website, but I don't
> think it communicates what Merb is about.
>
> When I think of Merb, I think of
>
> * Built for speed
> * Lightweight but Powerful
> * Minimal core code augmented with plugins
>
> I think we need more of a scientific/industrial look and less of a
> fun, pastel look. Maybe even black/white, but definitely more toward
> the feel of your designs for DataMapper ( http://datamapper.org/ ).
>
> We want people to look at merbivore.org for 5 seconds and feel that
> Merb is solid, capable, and serious. It's not something to mix with
> ammonia, unless you're wearing a gas mask.
>
> And we also need Louie on there somewhere.
>
> -- 
> Geoffrey Grosenbach
> boss at topfunky.com
> ........................
> PeepCode Screencasts
> http://peepcode.com
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel


From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 15:35:23 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 05:05:23 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>

> I think we need more of a scientific/industrial look and less of a
> fun, pastel look. Maybe even black/white, but definitely more toward
> the feel of your designs for DataMapper ( http://datamapper.org/ ).

I had thought of that approach, but wanted to avoid something too  
similar. Still, I see where you're coming from.

What about if we try simplifying the layout ? ditch the decorative  
elements ? and go for a monochromatic colour scheme? As you suggest,  
black and white would work well I think.

-- 
Luke



From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 03:58:50 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:28:50 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9233406D-8125-4C64-8951-C51904F7DA5E@gmail.com>

> What about if we try simplifying the layout ? ditch the decorative
> elements ? and go for a monochromatic colour scheme? As you suggest,
> black and white would work well I think.
>
>
> After all, no color is less than no color! Yeah keep it simple,  
> perhaps some greyscale.

LOL! Very good :)




From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 05:08:33 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:38:33 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>

Ok, so I've had a good think about the critisims and suggestions and  
I thought it might be worth trying out something a fair bit different  
to the last one.

Here it is:
http://mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious.gif

This layout is mainly black and white, with just a few colours to  
accent the design. I particularly liked Geoffrey's suggestion to  
emphasise a few key features of Merb. I've gone for the phrase 'Built  
for speed, lightweight, powerful'.

I also think John's idea of having code examples on the front page is  
tops. I couldn't think of anything particularly illustrative, so I've  
just put the install instructions in there for now.

And? the logo. I actually put a little more time into this than I  
originally intended. There needed to be something that would suit the  
almost monochromatic colour scheme. Also, I think the glossy/shiney  
logo look is a bit overdone by now. We should be looking to  
differentiate Merb from everything else out there.

So I created some custom type to spell the name. A logotype is the  
best solution IMO, since it's hard to link merb to a single concept  
that can be easily represented in a logo.

So! What do you guys think?

-- 
Luke





From olle at olleolleolle.dk  Tue Oct 16 05:02:10 2007
From: olle at olleolleolle.dk (Olle Jonsson)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:02:10 +0200
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <9233406D-8125-4C64-8951-C51904F7DA5E@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<9233406D-8125-4C64-8951-C51904F7DA5E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D2D0E2D-063F-4B74-92B9-81D7EB5EDCB8@olleolleolle.dk>

On Oct 16, 2007, at 09:58 , Luke Sutton wrote:

>> After all, no color is less than no color! Yeah keep it simple,
>> perhaps some greyscale.
>
> LOL! Very good :)
For a neat, subtle gray-scale tech website, see Io's:
http://iolanguage.com/about/

    -Olle

From john at smokinggun.com  Tue Oct 16 10:11:55 2007
From: john at smokinggun.com (John Weir)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:11:55 -0400
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FC9F9AD-949A-411E-8908-8C7ABAE90286@smokinggun.com>

visually i like this direction.

the icons add a touch of humor and lightness.  they could be links to  
(all as one, or individual) to explain merb's health benefits.

personally i would stay away from trying to tackle a logo and a  
design at the same time.  work on one or the other and keep the  
conversation focused.

i will say this about the logo: 1+1 is 2 or more in visuals.  the  
interior negative stroke on the face is adding a lot.  I don't think  
of Merb as being about minimalism, but I do think it is about being  
less and lightweight.

peace

- john


On Oct 16, 2007, at 5:08 AM, Luke Sutton wrote:

> Ok, so I've had a good think about the critisims and suggestions and
> I thought it might be worth trying out something a fair bit different
> to the last one.
>
> Here it is:
> http://mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious.gif
>
> This layout is mainly black and white, with just a few colours to
> accent the design. I particularly liked Geoffrey's suggestion to
> emphasise a few key features of Merb. I've gone for the phrase 'Built
> for speed, lightweight, powerful'.
>
> I also think John's idea of having code examples on the front page is
> tops. I couldn't think of anything particularly illustrative, so I've
> just put the install instructions in there for now.
>
> And? the logo. I actually put a little more time into this than I
> originally intended. There needed to be something that would suit the
> almost monochromatic colour scheme. Also, I think the glossy/shiney
> logo look is a bit overdone by now. We should be looking to
> differentiate Merb from everything else out there.
>
> So I created some custom type to spell the name. A logotype is the
> best solution IMO, since it's hard to link merb to a single concept
> that can be easily represented in a logo.
>
> So! What do you guys think?
>
> -- 
> Luke
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel


From ivey at gweezlebur.com  Tue Oct 16 10:26:26 2007
From: ivey at gweezlebur.com (Michael D. Ivey)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:26:26 -0500
Subject: respond_to API
Message-ID: <11409D88-BED6-48EC-8FF3-17217B5B55A4@gweezlebur.com>

I'll probably do my respond_to API rewrite, as discussed here:

	http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/merb-devel/2007-September/000275.html

sometime this week, unless someone has come up with a better API.

I'll also work in http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/227 at the same time.

Any serious objections?

From kevwil at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 13:03:20 2007
From: kevwil at gmail.com (Kevin Williams)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:03:20 -0600
Subject: respond_to API
In-Reply-To: <11409D88-BED6-48EC-8FF3-17217B5B55A4@gweezlebur.com>
References: <11409D88-BED6-48EC-8FF3-17217B5B55A4@gweezlebur.com>
Message-ID: <683a886f0710161003h7aa903fch532e2e9f5de67253@mail.gmail.com>

I must be emotionally attached to the current API, because the
proposal isn't clicking for me. On one hand it makes sense, but on the
other hand it feels disconnected and doesn't have an obvious flow.

"respond_to" may seem to be a magic box in terms of deciding what
format to use, but the flow is clear to me.

The "provides" declaration gives a very clear definition of what
formats to use but appears to have too much magic in *how* the format
choice is actually made.

Just voicing a concern from a different perspective. Feel free to
ignore me - still a newbie some days. :)

On 10/16/07, Michael D. Ivey <ivey at gweezlebur.com> wrote:
> I'll probably do my respond_to API rewrite, as discussed here:
>
>         http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/merb-devel/2007-September/000275.html
>
> sometime this week, unless someone has come up with a better API.
>
> I'll also work in http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/227 at the same time.
>
> Any serious objections?
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel
>


-- 
Cheers,

Kevin Williams
http://kevwil.com/
http://www.almostserio.us/
http://kevwil.jaiku.com/

From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:50:56 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:20:56 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFEA44A4-8191-44AC-A3E9-1D95FB2B1BDA@gmail.com>

Ok, so I thought I'd just plug along and work on a few more pages.  
This should shake out more ideas and give us a better idea of how  
suitable/flexible this layout is.

I agree about the logo. Best left for a later point. I'm hoping that  
we keep the site suitably simple that a logo can be dropped in  
without needing dramatic changes.

I haven't added an overview page, I think 'Why Merb?' covers that to  
some extent, although it could just be labeled overview instead.

www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_front.gif
www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_contribute.gif
www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_why.gif
www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_get.gif

Take it squeezy,
Luke

From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:55:11 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:25:11 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0279F7CE-BEC2-422E-BCED-EAA96DA19003@gmail.com>

Just for the hell of it I also tried the front page with the existing  
logo taken from the app skeleton.

I actually really like it! :)

It works better than I though it would.

www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_logo_test.gif

-- 
Luke

From wayneeseguin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 08:05:16 2007
From: wayneeseguin at gmail.com (Wayne E. Seguin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:05:16 -0400
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <0279F7CE-BEC2-422E-BCED-EAA96DA19003@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<0279F7CE-BEC2-422E-BCED-EAA96DA19003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef3e5d50710180505u7329d634vc532edc00311b00f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/18/07, Luke Sutton <luke.sutton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just for the hell of it I also tried the front page with the existing
> logo taken from the app skeleton.
>
> I actually really like it! :)
>
> It works better than I though it would.
>
> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_logo_test.gif
>

Love the green logo ("Merb, environmentally friendly").
Love where you're going with the layout idea.
Still don't care for the colored squiggles on the first page ;)

  ~Wayne
-------------- next part --------------
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From scaudill at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 14:11:24 2007
From: scaudill at gmail.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:11:24 -0400
Subject: respond_to API
In-Reply-To: <683a886f0710161003h7aa903fch532e2e9f5de67253@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11409D88-BED6-48EC-8FF3-17217B5B55A4@gweezlebur.com>
	<683a886f0710161003h7aa903fch532e2e9f5de67253@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2CD1E79E-D567-4770-935B-5A3FF6BC1613@gmail.com>

Originally sent this a couple of days ago, but only sent it to Kevin  
Williams.

Original Message:

==

I still don't like the case statement there...  It won't be able to  
help being magical in it's attempt to not be so magical (though, I  
also fail to see what's magical about a method that takes blocks).  I  
don't like that you have to state twice what sort of format you want  
to deal with if you want to do something other than render a template.

def index
   provides :foo
   case request.format
   when :foo : Object.to_foo
   end
end

seems clumsy beside:

def index
   respond_to do |format|
     format.foo {Object.to_foo}
   end
end

in the case of a rendered template, you do end up with a win though:

class MyController
   provides :html
   def index
     provides :json, :yaml
   end
end

vs.

class MyController
   def index
     respond_to do |format|
       format.html
       format.json
       format.yaml
     end
   end
end

but just as soon as the controller slips past the simple case (which  
I posit it will more often than not, otherwise you'd be using a non- 
content-type-sensitive action), you lose that benefit.

In my mind that API is more of a 20/80 solution for people that  
actually develop RESTful applications on Merb.  I'll illustrate using  
an actual RESTful controller (from a 0.3.7 app) that is in production.

Written using the current style:

http://pastie.caboo.se/107837

Now written using the proposed style:

http://pastie.caboo.se/107838

I just don't see a net benefit in clarity, beauty or brevity.

Sorry to be a curmudgeon.

--

Stephen
(voxdolo)

==

On Oct 16, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Kevin Williams wrote:

> I must be emotionally attached to the current API, because the
> proposal isn't clicking for me. On one hand it makes sense, but on the
> other hand it feels disconnected and doesn't have an obvious flow.
>
> "respond_to" may seem to be a magic box in terms of deciding what
> format to use, but the flow is clear to me.
>
> The "provides" declaration gives a very clear definition of what
> formats to use but appears to have too much magic in *how* the format
> choice is actually made.
>
> Just voicing a concern from a different perspective. Feel free to
> ignore me - still a newbie some days. :)
>
> On 10/16/07, Michael D. Ivey <ivey at gweezlebur.com> wrote:
>> I'll probably do my respond_to API rewrite, as discussed here:
>>
>>         http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/merb-devel/2007-September/ 
>> 000275.html
>>
>> sometime this week, unless someone has come up with a better API.
>>
>> I'll also work in http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/227 at the same  
>> time.
>>
>> Any serious objections?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Merb-devel mailing list
>> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
>
> Kevin Williams
> http://kevwil.com/
> http://www.almostserio.us/
> http://kevwil.jaiku.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel


From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 18:05:57 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:35:57 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0710181102g1563a91bpd60a70338b85861d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<0279F7CE-BEC2-422E-BCED-EAA96DA19003@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710181102g1563a91bpd60a70338b85861d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5702ACB5-AC18-4B63-8DEE-FDAD32B9C944@gmail.com>

>> It works better than I though it would.
>>
>> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_logo_test.gif
>>
>
> Luke, I really like your work!, and the time you've invested on  
> it! :-)

Thank you.

I'm doing it coz I think Merb is? awesome!

> It's great!
>
> I'll add some syntax highlight for the code, ad gt eh headers fixed
> (the why page list eh advantages and the get page list the procedure
> of download) :-D

oops :)

> But guess we could create some "Merbiant" (A Radiant Merb Clone) with
> DataMapper ;-)

That would be a top idea. For one thing it'd be a really great  
example of a Merb app, the sort of thing people ask after all the  
time ? 'is there a good cms for [rails, merb, php]'.

-- 
Luke

From ez at engineyard.com  Thu Oct 18 22:33:40 2007
From: ez at engineyard.com (Ezra Zygmuntowicz)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:33:40 -0700
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <CFEA44A4-8191-44AC-A3E9-1D95FB2B1BDA@gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFEA44A4-8191-44AC-A3E9-1D95FB2B1BDA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85F29CB4-A8D0-404A-882B-890099A34F62@engineyard.com>


On Oct 18, 2007, at 3:50 AM, Luke Sutton wrote:

> Ok, so I thought I'd just plug along and work on a few more pages.
> This should shake out more ideas and give us a better idea of how
> suitable/flexible this layout is.
>
> I agree about the logo. Best left for a later point. I'm hoping that
> we keep the site suitably simple that a logo can be dropped in
> without needing dramatic changes.
>
> I haven't added an overview page, I think 'Why Merb?' covers that to
> some extent, although it could just be labeled overview instead.
>
> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_front.gif
> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_contribute.gif
> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_why.gif
> www.mr-eel.com/tmp/merb/serious_get.gif
>
> Take it squeezy,
> Luke

Luke-

	This is starting to look really sweet! I've been in the process of  
moving for the last week or so so I've been AWOL but I really like  
the direction you're heading. I'd like to get merbivore.com up by  
rubyconf so I guess I need to make a little app we can use those  
mockups on.

Cheers-
-Ezra

From B.Candler at pobox.com  Fri Oct 19 01:40:09 2007
From: B.Candler at pobox.com (Brian Candler)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:40:09 +0100
Subject: respond_to API
In-Reply-To: <2CD1E79E-D567-4770-935B-5A3FF6BC1613@gmail.com>
References: <11409D88-BED6-48EC-8FF3-17217B5B55A4@gweezlebur.com>
	<683a886f0710161003h7aa903fch532e2e9f5de67253@mail.gmail.com>
	<2CD1E79E-D567-4770-935B-5A3FF6BC1613@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071019054009.GA19544@uk.tiscali.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 02:11:24PM -0400, Stephen Caudill wrote:
> in the case of a rendered template, you do end up with a win though:
> 
> class MyController
>    provides :html
>    def index
>      provides :json, :yaml
>    end
> end
> 
> vs.
> 
> class MyController
>    def index
>      respond_to do |format|
>        format.html
>        format.json
>        format.yaml
>      end
>    end
> end

But in that simple case, couldn't you just match the format to the template
extension automatically?

That is,

   format.foo { ... }

tells you how to render a foo request, but if not specified, it defaults to
render action.rfoo

The 'provides' would be implied by the existence of the template with the
right extension.

B.

From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 03:38:15 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:08:15 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <85F29CB4-A8D0-404A-882B-890099A34F62@engineyard.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFEA44A4-8191-44AC-A3E9-1D95FB2B1BDA@gmail.com>
	<85F29CB4-A8D0-404A-882B-890099A34F62@engineyard.com>
Message-ID: <E413153C-7DE9-4F56-A632-BDDBB8662C0F@gmail.com>

> 	This is starting to look really sweet!

Thanks man.

> I've been in the process of moving for the last week or so so I've  
> been AWOL but I really like the direction you're heading. I'd like  
> to get merbivore.com up by rubyconf so I guess I need to make a  
> little app we can use those mockups on.

There was a suggestion of a merb app similar to Radiant ? although  
perhaps a little more simple ? on the IRC channel. A good idea I  
reckon. It could go into use on merbivore, but would also serve as a  
good showcase for Merb.

Just a thought anyway.

I'm ready and willing to pitch in with the CSS/HTML coding and  
anything else for that matter. 2 week deadline. We can totally do  
that :)

-- 
Luke


From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 03:39:48 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:09:48 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <ef3e5d50710180505u7329d634vc532edc00311b00f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<0279F7CE-BEC2-422E-BCED-EAA96DA19003@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710180505u7329d634vc532edc00311b00f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72DC4C38-D51E-4D9D-A447-3FBE13B00CBA@gmail.com>

> Love the green logo ("Merb, environmentally friendly").

I'm not sure who did that one originally. All credit to them.

> Love where you're going with the layout idea.
> Still don't care for the colored squiggles on the first page ;)

Well I like em, so there! :p

-- 
Luke

From luke.sutton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 19:47:51 2007
From: luke.sutton at gmail.com (Luke Sutton)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:17:51 +0930
Subject: Merbivore.com - Mockups
In-Reply-To: <71166b3b0710191222w6ec4cf50hcd74050cb1dc3b72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19DB9924-4B0B-455F-B628-77A673172BF8@gmail.com>
	<15754f7e0710150950g7a44aa80m612154af38ff34fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6CD629CC-86EA-4E2B-BAC2-6C81D5031E51@gmail.com>
	<ef3e5d50710152013u2451a5b9k5961671ade2d3599@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E5799C-4081-4928-B382-28634278B4BE@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710160730h6fd421e7t55feab5094a218e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFEA44A4-8191-44AC-A3E9-1D95FB2B1BDA@gmail.com>
	<85F29CB4-A8D0-404A-882B-890099A34F62@engineyard.com>
	<E413153C-7DE9-4F56-A632-BDDBB8662C0F@gmail.com>
	<71166b3b0710191222w6ec4cf50hcd74050cb1dc3b72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2391AD6D-FB4F-47AE-9CE1-1EDE39719349@gmail.com>

>> There was a suggestion of a merb app similar to Radiant ? although
>> perhaps a little more simple ? on the IRC channel. A good idea I
>> reckon. It could go into use on merbivore, but would also serve as a
>> good showcase for Merb.
>>
>
> Was me :-)

Sorry Luis, I couldn't remember.

> Radiant is way to complex, now with all their Page inheritance and
> (Extensions) thing.
>
> I cannot commit to the project and do that (since I've my hands full
> of OSS projects).
>
> I could hack something with help, but since this will have two sides:
> Front and CMS, maybe 2 weeks deadline are less than ideal.

For something moderately complicated, that is true. I've learned to  
be a little more conservative with deadlines. IT never works out how  
you hope!

>> Just a thought anyway.
>
> Maybe a almost static-served-by-merb site could do for now, and later
> migrate to a full CMS (obviously, powered by Merb).

That might be the go. We could actually just make something totally  
static, no Merb. We could easily hit the deadline at that rate.

Something like Webby (http://webby.rubyforge.org/) to handle the  
templating and output plain HTML. Then we just stick it on a server.  
I've had great success using it on the datamapper site. Awesome,  
awesome little app.

Later on we can look at making a 'showcase' application. Maybe Mr.  
Blog could get some love?

>> I'm ready and willing to pitch in with the CSS/HTML coding and
>> anything else for that matter. 2 week deadline. We can totally do
>> that :)
>
> I like you enthusiasm :)

I'll be doing what I love!

> Looking forward to test-drive it (browser compatibility check) ;-)

That would be excellent. It's always difficult to test everything,  
especially IE since I'm on a Mac.

-- 
Luke



From cremes.devlist at mac.com  Tue Oct 23 12:52:57 2007
From: cremes.devlist at mac.com (Chuck Remes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:52:57 -0500
Subject: sample app using Sequel?
Message-ID: <369E53DA-F094-4FF7-8582-7E3CA81777F8@mac.com>

I'm a new merb user. Rather than ask a bunch of questions on this  
list, I'd like to ask if anyone can point me to a sample merb  
application preferably using trunk (or close to it) and preferably  
using Sequel for the ORM.

If I can't figure out how to bull my way through things from a  
sample, I'll come back and ask my newbie questions. Thanks!

cr

From jonathan at new-bamboo.co.uk  Tue Oct 23 13:09:39 2007
From: jonathan at new-bamboo.co.uk (Jonathan Conway)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:09:39 +0100
Subject: sample app using Sequel?
In-Reply-To: <369E53DA-F094-4FF7-8582-7E3CA81777F8@mac.com>
References: <369E53DA-F094-4FF7-8582-7E3CA81777F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AC9ECEE1-85C7-4EFD-AEC9-7B5779F4CF39@new-bamboo.co.uk>

Hi Chuck,
Have you taken a look at http://svn.devjavu.com/merb/apps/ ?

Cheers

JonathanOn 23 Oct 2007, at 17:52, Chuck Remes wrote:

> I'm a new merb user. Rather than ask a bunch of questions on this
> list, I'd like to ask if anyone can point me to a sample merb
> application preferably using trunk (or close to it) and preferably
> using Sequel for the ORM.
>
> If I can't figure out how to bull my way through things from a
> sample, I'll come back and ask my newbie questions. Thanks!
>
> cr
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel


From cremes.devlist at mac.com  Tue Oct 23 14:06:10 2007
From: cremes.devlist at mac.com (Chuck Remes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:06:10 -0500
Subject: sample app using Sequel?
In-Reply-To: <AC9ECEE1-85C7-4EFD-AEC9-7B5779F4CF39@new-bamboo.co.uk>
References: <369E53DA-F094-4FF7-8582-7E3CA81777F8@mac.com>
	<AC9ECEE1-85C7-4EFD-AEC9-7B5779F4CF39@new-bamboo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A7E248FC-86C3-43E8-A869-CFD414E5C671@mac.com>


On Oct 23, 2007, at 12:09 PM, Jonathan Conway wrote:

> Hi Chuck,
> Have you taken a look at http://svn.devjavu.com/merb/apps/ ?
>
> Cheers
>
> JonathanOn 23 Oct 2007, at 17:52, Chuck Remes wrote:
>
>> I'm a new merb user. Rather than ask a bunch of questions on this
>> list, I'd like to ask if anyone can point me to a sample merb
>> application preferably using trunk (or close to it) and preferably
>> using Sequel for the ORM.
>>
>> If I can't figure out how to bull my way through things from a
>> sample, I'll come back and ask my newbie questions. Thanks!

Thanks for the pointer. I'm looking through it now.

cr


From dudley at misnomer.us  Wed Oct 24 12:04:38 2007
From: dudley at misnomer.us (Dudley Flanders)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:04:38 -0500
Subject: Status of Merb on JRuby
Message-ID: <8982BA3A-FB80-40A9-95FC-54927524C90C@misnomer.us>

I've submitted a few patches on Trac to help get Merb running under  
JRuby [0][1][2][3][4]. It'd be cool if any of you committers could  
find the time to look them over and apply/reject them. They're mostly  
tiny, so it shouldn't be too onerous.

With all of these patches applied, there are still 3 spec failures.  
One is in the spec 'a merb mailer should be able to send mails via  
sendmail', and depends on JRuby bug JRUBY-1106[5]. The other two are  
caused by a 'can't convert Tempfile into String' error in  
Request#parse_multipart. I'll try and track that one down later today.

Most of Merb's dependencies are available on JRuby, with the  
exception of json, which uses a native C parser. Changing the gem  
dependency to json_pure would allow Merb to install on any platform 
[4]. Mongrel doesn't officially support JRuby yet, but the jruby- 
extras project has a gem available[6]. The Java support is integrated  
in Mongrel's trunk, and should be available in the next release.

Only Erubis templates are "supported" at the moment, meaning that erb  
templates should work. The other template engines are in various  
states of semi-to-non-working. Markaby passes all its specs, so it  
should work, but I'd like to hear from someone who uses it before we  
call it supported. The builder template specs implode quietly, taking  
the whole spec run down with them, so I've disabled them. Rendering a  
trivial builder template works fine, so it's probably a problem with  
the specs as opposed to builder itself. Haml fails a couple of specs,  
so I've disabled it, too, for now. I only use erb, so if anyone wants  
to help out, making one of the other engines work would be a great  
place to start :-)

:dudley

[0] http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/231
[1] http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/232
[2] http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/236
[3] http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/242
[4] http://merb.devjavu.com/ticket/235
[5] http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/JRUBY-1106
[6] http://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/20097/mongrel-1.0.1-jruby.gem


From dudley at misnomer.us  Wed Oct 24 16:54:37 2007
From: dudley at misnomer.us (Dudley Flanders)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:54:37 -0500
Subject: Status of Merb on JRuby
In-Reply-To: <8982BA3A-FB80-40A9-95FC-54927524C90C@misnomer.us>
References: <8982BA3A-FB80-40A9-95FC-54927524C90C@misnomer.us>
Message-ID: <E3B6E870-3EF1-4A73-B272-7B9E1B956F54@misnomer.us>


On Oct 24, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Dudley Flanders wrote:

> The other two are
> caused by a 'can't convert Tempfile into String' error in
> Request#parse_multipart. I'll try and track that one down later today.

Found it. It's a JRuby bug: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/JRUBY-1470.

:dudley


From cremes.devlist at mac.com  Wed Oct 24 18:30:32 2007
From: cremes.devlist at mac.com (Chuck Remes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Q] capistrano recipe for deployment
Message-ID: <86E716E6-F5FD-49CA-9CB2-9EDAB9173D81@mac.com>

Anyone have a working (or even semi-functional) capistrano recipe for  
deploying merb apps?

If not, I guess I'll have to write one... ;-)

cr

From ivey at gweezlebur.com  Sat Oct 27 12:15:33 2007
From: ivey at gweezlebur.com (Michael D. Ivey)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:15:33 -0500
Subject: merb_has_flash 0.0.1 - Rails-style flash
Message-ID: <773E2E85-5FEA-4A91-8A3B-0A5C154E40D4@gweezlebur.com>

I ripped the flash stuff from merb and stuck it in a plugin, for  
folks who want a Rails-style flash.  It's on Rubyforge:
	http://rubyforge.org/projects/merb-plugins/
And will maybe have a little homepage:
	http://merb-plugins.rubyforge.org/merb_has_flash/

Try it out, please send bug reports to me via email for now.

From ivey at gweezlebur.com  Sat Oct 27 14:47:12 2007
From: ivey at gweezlebur.com (Michael D. Ivey)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:47:12 -0500
Subject: merb_has_flash 0.0.1 - Rails-style flash
In-Reply-To: <773E2E85-5FEA-4A91-8A3B-0A5C154E40D4@gweezlebur.com>
References: <773E2E85-5FEA-4A91-8A3B-0A5C154E40D4@gweezlebur.com>
Message-ID: <964EE455-1510-4BB2-B2F5-69B0D5EB9983@gweezlebur.com>

On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:15 AM, "Michael D. Ivey" <ivey at gweezlebur.com>  
wrote:

> I ripped the flash stuff from merb and stuck it in a plugin

Obviously I meant "flash stuff from Rails" ...

From adamjroth at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 13:01:04 2007
From: adamjroth at gmail.com (Adam Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:01:04 -0700
Subject: Merb - Losing connection to MySQL
Message-ID: <390fc99d0710301001x4b515c56s4ddfa81dd95f8a22@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Once or twice a day I'm losing connection to MySQL and this error is
generated:

Mysql::Error: Lost connection to MySQL server during query: INSERT INTO
pictures (`content_type`, `name`, `size`, `thumbnail`, `updated_at`,
`pictureable_type`, `description`, `pictureable_id`, `filename`, `height`,
`user_id`, `parent_id`, `created_at`, `width`) VALUES('image/jpeg', NULL,
70907, NULL, '2007-10-30 00:25:36', '-', NULL, 43, 'DSC05209.JPG', 525, 1,
NULL, '2007-10-30 00:25:36', 700) - (ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid)
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract_adapter.rb:128:in
`log'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/mysql_adapter.rb:243:in
`execute'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/mysql_adapter.rb:253:in
`insert'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/base.rb:1814:in
`create_without_callbacks'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/callbacks.rb:254:in
`create_without_timestamps'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/timestamp.rb:30:in
`create'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/base.rb:1792:in
`create_or_update_without_callbacks'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/callbacks.rb:242:in
`create_or_update'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/base.rb:1548:in
`save_without_validation'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/validations.rb:752:in
`save_without_transactions'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/transactions.rb:129:in
`save'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:59:in
`transaction'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/transactions.rb:95:in
`transaction'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/transactions.rb:121:in
`transaction'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/transactions.rb:129:in
`save'
/u/apps/splat_upload/app/controllers/upload.rb:13:in `do'

(The connection doesn't restore)

Very simple setup, cluster of 3...

...I'm using Merb for image uploads. I also have this exact same setup on
another site and I never lose connection. Is there a work-around for this?
Any ideas?

Thanks
-------------- next part --------------
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From ez at engineyard.com  Tue Oct 30 14:48:47 2007
From: ez at engineyard.com (Ezra Zygmuntowicz)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:48:47 -0700
Subject: Merb - Losing connection to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <390fc99d0710301001x4b515c56s4ddfa81dd95f8a22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <390fc99d0710301001x4b515c56s4ddfa81dd95f8a22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7342EC43-D3F4-477D-873E-EB3F64571724@engineyard.com>

Adam-

	First make certain you are using the C mysql bindings and not the  
pure ruby ones.  Also try putting this in your merb_init.rb:

Thread.new { loop { ActiveRecord::Base.verify_active_connections!;  
sleep 60*60} }.priority = -10

That will wake up every hour and ping the db to make sure it doesn't  
disconnect.

Cheers-
-Ezra

On Oct 30, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Adam Roth wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Once or twice a day I'm losing connection to MySQL and this error is  
> generated:
>
> Mysql::Error: Lost connection to MySQL server during query: INSERT  
> INTO pictures (`content_type`, `name`, `size`, `thumbnail`,  
> `updated_at`, `pictureable_type`, `description`, `pictureable_id`,  
> `filename`, `height`, `user_id`, `parent_id`, `created_at`, `width`)  
> VALUES('image/jpeg', NULL, 70907, NULL, '2007-10-30 00:25:36', '-',  
> NULL, 43, ' DSC05209.JPG', 525, 1, NULL, '2007-10-30 00:25:36', 700)  
> - (ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid)
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> connection_adapters/abstract_adapter.rb:128:in `log'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> connection_adapters/mysql_adapter.rb:243:in `execute'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> connection_adapters/mysql_adapter.rb:253:in `insert'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> base.rb:1814:in `create_without_callbacks'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> callbacks.rb:254:in `create_without_timestamps'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> timestamp.rb:30:in `create'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> base.rb:1792:in `create_or_update_without_callbacks'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> callbacks.rb:242:in `create_or_update'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> base.rb:1548:in `save_without_validation'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> validations.rb:752:in `save_without_transactions'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> transactions.rb:129:in `save'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:59:in  
> `transaction'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> transactions.rb:95:in `transaction'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> transactions.rb:121:in `transaction'
> /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.15.5/lib/active_record/ 
> transactions.rb:129:in `save'
> /u/apps/splat_upload/app/controllers/upload.rb:13:in `do'
>
> (The connection doesn't restore)
>
> Very simple setup, cluster of 3...
>
> ...I'm using Merb for image uploads. I also have this exact same  
> setup on another site and I never lose connection. Is there a work- 
> around for this? Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Merb-devel mailing list
> Merb-devel at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/merb-devel

Ezra Zygmuntowicz
Founder & Ruby Hacker
ezra at engineyard.com
EngineYard.com



From kevwil at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 10:54:38 2007
From: kevwil at gmail.com (Kevin Williams)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:54:38 -0600
Subject: Mongrel breaking Merb?
Message-ID: <683a886f0710310754m34407e6dp527d403bb692404d@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone had troubles from Mongrel > 1.0.1? Just curious, because
the last time I tried to run Merb it gave me some Mongrel error about
the wrong number of arguments, or something like that.

I can post the exact message tonight when I get home.

-- 
Cheers,

Kevin Williams
http://kevwil.com/
http://www.almostserio.us/
http://kevwil.jaiku.com/