[Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"

Jim Deville jdeville at microsoft.com
Sun Aug 8 17:36:06 EDT 2010

At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of the IronRuby organization on Github ☺

From: ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Orion Edwards
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM
To: ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"

4. Rails on .NET

I think asp.net<http://asp.net> mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both maturity and thinking.

If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think this would help a lot

On question I'd REALLY like answered is this:

Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this?

Thanks, Orion

On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berridge at gmail.com<mailto:kevin.w.berridge at gmail.com>> wrote:
To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise:

I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, there will be shops that will not be able to use it.  On the other hand, there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they understand what they could use it for and how.

To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak.  I know it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, but what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from using it?

If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping people get started with using it for those things.  This could help drive adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors.

Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for":
1. Unit Testing (http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html)
2. Embedded Scripting (http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html)
3. Silverlight (http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html)
4. ?

Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here:
Kevin Berridge

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <slavof at gmail.com<mailto:slavof at gmail.com>> wrote:
I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful
if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say
what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for
the future.

Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to
(officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in
what way? As a project owner? And so on...

Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions
about what to do.

More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I
am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know
what to expect from future (questions like - will development of
IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what
about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to
make some of decisions.


On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld <lists at ruby-forum.com<mailto:lists at ruby-forum.com>> wrote:
> I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give support
> to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology that
> helps us become way more productive in our jobs.
> On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another
> job.
> Regards,
> Eduardo Blumenfeld
> Cory Foy wrote:
>> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action.
>> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the main
>> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working on it
>> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being an
>> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that
>> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, but
>> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization.
>> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate about
>> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the
>> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've done
>> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term
>> participants because of the new awareness.
>> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork it,
>> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be controlled.
>> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to ask
>> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill:
>> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now lost
>> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need an
>> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will have
>> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side.
>> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet there
>> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned
>> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to
>> understand what else we're missing.
>> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the
>> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft
>> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products.
>> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a
>> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this -
>> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing to
>> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a
>> shame.
>> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we
>> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work to
>> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes
>> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an email
>> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and Jimmy
>> have, and support the work Tomas is doing?
>> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of
>> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to take
>> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is there.
>> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on
>> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a real
>> success.
>> Cory
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