[Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"

Bobby Johnson bobby.johnson at gmail.com
Sat Aug 7 23:43:13 EDT 2010


I could take a stab at getting a codebetter CI build up. Im pretty familiar
with TeamCity, we use it at work. Not sure how CI friendly the current build
script is, but hey ill give it a shot if your interested.

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tomas Matousek <Tomas.Matousek at microsoft.com
> wrote:

> Re CI server: cool, let's get one up and running then. Ideally we would
> have 2 - one running on Windows and other on Linux to make sure that
> IronRuby works well on both platforms.
> Both should run the same test-suite (irtests script). The harness might
> need some tweaks for Linux and you're welcome to submit patches.
>
> Re "Code review emails are just one extra step that's not needed":
> Code reviews are absolutely needed! It's not a bureaucracy, it's a quality
> gateway. Nobody should commit anything without a code review from the code
> owner. For now, that would be mostly me (core, libraries, csproj files), Jim
> (test harness, infrastructure) and Jimmy (Silverlight, ironRack). If
> anybody's interesting in owning some part of IronRuby let know the current
> owner.
>
> Actually, what do you mean by "canonical" repo? What would make GIT repo
> canonical?
>
> Tomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org [mailto:
> ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Michael Letterle
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:34 PM
> To: ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"
>
> We've had a CI server set up on CJ's hardware for a while, it's actually
> worked from time to time as well :) http://twitter.com/IronRubyCI
>
> I'm more then willing to get that up and running again, it wasn't a general
> CI server though, it was mostly for mine and Ivan's changes for compilation
> under Linux.
>
> And Code review emails are just one extra step that's not needed, it's just
> bureaucracy added on by the current situation, it's a barrier to entry and a
> hassle.  Don't misunderstand, the work gone into them IS appreciated, but
> it's just another *groan*.
>
> And I find it hard to believe that the only reason for an internal
> canonical repo was lack of external CI.. that's not what's being implied, is
> it?
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Tomas Matousek <
> Tomas.Matousek at microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Is there anybody who decided not to submit a patch based upon the
> limitations/requirements of the current process and who would contribute
> otherwise?
> > Is anybody willing to run a continuous integration server that guards the
> repo from erroneous patches? A canonical repo needs to have such a
> gatekeeper. Our internal SNAP system has provided this functionality for the
> internal TFS repo.
> >
> > BTW, "Sync to TFS" was an artifact of lack of automated sync tool. We now
> have that tool, thanks to Jim, so you should see less of these. Code review
> emails has been sent for most of the changes that were made to Ruby repo
> anyways. So if you watched the mailing list you could easily track what's
> going on. Only comments to changesets that included some internal
> infrastructure changes weren't sent to the mailing list.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org
> > [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of William
> > Green
> > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 5:36 PM
> > To: ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> > Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"
> >
> > I agree with Michael here. As long as the canonical source for IronRuby
> lives in TFS behind the big blue firewall, with only MSFT employees as core
> committers, there is a problem.
> >
> > What I propose is that we, as a community, designate the github repo
> > as the canonical one, and that whoever controls it opens up commit
> > access beyond the MSFT core team, perhaps to those that have already
> > had accepted contribution. (this may already be in place, I don't
> > know)
> >
> > Bottom line is that MSFT has decided they no longer desire to invest in
> the project. If we want IronRuby, we're going to have to make it happen, on
> our own.
> >
> > --
> > Will Green
> > http://hotgazpacho.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 7, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Michael Letterle <michael.letterle at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> If Microsoft was simply sponsoring development and putting its stamp
> >> on it, it wouldn't be a problem.. but the fact that MS "owns" it IS a
> >> bottleneck, as been from the start.  "Sync to TFS" commits make me
> >> cringe everytime I see them.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Jim Deville <jdeville at microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I guess I never really sent the mail that I meant to send about my
> >>> progression.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Similar to Jimmy, I've also made the incredibly hard decision to
> >>> move on as well. I've been working on the JavaScript team now for
> >>> about 2 weeks. I've made this decision for many of the same reasons
> >>> as Jimmy, but for various personal reasons, I decided to remain with
> >>> MS instead of leaving. I will still be working with IronRuby, it
> >>> just won't be my primary function anymore.  I also had a wonderful
> >>> time on the team, and I will really miss working directly with them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree that IronRuby is not a big community, but I don't know that
> >>> it is a problem unless we let it be one J. I also feel that MS
> >>> owning the code isn't a problem. It's not like it really benefits
> >>> anyone inside of MS, it benefits us, the users J. It also benefits
> >>> the Ruby community at large if we continue to make IronRuby a great
> >>> product that people want to use in their .NET applications, because
> >>> it shows people Ruby J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I understand that this is sad, and for some, expected L, but I hope
> >>> that people still continue doing the awesome things people have been
> >>> doing J
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> JD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org
> >>> [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Orion
> >>> Edwards
> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:43 PM
> >>>
> >>> To: ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> >>> Subject: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure most of you have seen this already, but I hadn't seen
> >>> Jimmy's "farewell Microsoft" blog post posted to the list, so here
> >>> it is if anyone hasn't read it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/08/start-spreading-news-future-
> >>> o
> >>> f-jimmy.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to thank Jimmy for his work thus far on IronRuby, and
> >>> certainly wish you the best of luck at your new job and living in
> >>> NYC. From that point of view, it's happy days.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The news about Microsoft's internal handling of IronRuby however
> >>> makes me rather sad, and frankly a bit worried about the future of
> >>> IronRuby in general. If there's now only 2 part-time developers
> >>> working on IR inside Microsoft, and they've been told not to develop
> >>> any new features, then where does that leave us?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> While IronRuby is open source (yay), It unfortunately hasn't seem to
> >>> have become quite big enough (unlike JRuby) to be self sustaining.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I personally also perceive somewhat of a problem, in that (again,
> >>> unlike with JRuby) Microsoft "owns" IronRuby. Last I knew,
> >>> committers still had to sign a copyright assignment form to MS, and
> >>> MS controls all the repositories and other assorted stuff. (AFAIK
> >>> Charles has personally controlled all the JRuby repos since day one and
> still does).
> >>>
> >>> This provides a LARGE (to me at least) disincentive to contribute to
> >>> IronRuby in the future. Because MS owns IronRuby, I feel like if I
> >>> were to commit code, it would not be for the benefit of a nice
> >>> friendly community-driven open source group, it would be for the
> >>> benefit of Microsoft Corporation.
> >>>
> >>> I was happy to accept this when MS were putting a lot of work into
> >>> IronRuby, but now that they're not, my feeling is "So Microsoft have
> >>> bailed and left us hanging, why on earth would I want to do work on
> >>> their behalf after they've just done that?"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At any rate, I've not committed any code to IronRuby (I've come
> >>> close several times, but never just had the time) so my opinion is
> >>> largely irrelevant, I just hope that other potential committers with
> >>> more time and skill than I don't end up feeling this way too :-(
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Ironruby-core mailing list
> >>> Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Letterle
> >> IronRuby MVP
> >> http://blog.prokrams.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ironruby-core mailing list
> >> Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ironruby-core mailing list
> > Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ironruby-core mailing list
> > Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Letterle
> IronRuby MVP
> http://blog.prokrams.com
> _______________________________________________
> Ironruby-core mailing list
> Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ironruby-core mailing list
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> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
>



-- 
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be
correct."

- Occam’s Razor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
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