[Ironruby-core] Asp.Net MVC .... V/S... IronRuby On Rails

Jimmy Schementi Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com
Mon Feb 25 03:59:03 EST 2008


Making both Rails and MVC work with IronRuby (and the other DLR languages) is the right thing to do, since freedom and choice with the Microsoft platform is what we're all about. So if someone want to use IronRuby on Rails or IronRuby on ASP.NET MVC, they should be able to. That being said, IronRuby on Rails will basically work as a byproduct of supporting all the Ruby languages features, as Rails is simply a big Ruby app. Other parts of the Rails stack that are even partially implemented in C (mongrel, database adapters, etc) will have to be re-implemented in C#.

ASP.NET MVC has plenty of benefits over Ruby on Rails, except the fact that you can use Ruby with ROR. =P However, having ASP.NET MVC gives you a better scalability story w/IIS + SQL server, and Rails is hurting in that respect. Don't get me wrong, I love Rails, but I've had to deal with a lot of pain at getting Rails to scale up (not impossible, just harder than it needs to be); this is where we can improve on Rails.

Now for the good stuff: I've been prototyping things w/IronRuby + MVC, and we've had conversations with the MVC team about support DLR languages. Scott Hanselman did a talk at Alt.NET about some early work getting IronPython working with a VERY early version of MVC here: http://www.hanselman.com/silverlight/ScottHaAtAltNetConf/. However, since we're all busy people, we're focusing on just getting the DLR+languages working, as keeping in two fast moving project in-sync is asking for trouble. =)

For more substance, here are the things we need to care about to make DLR languages work w/MVC:

1. DLR languages in Controllers:
    - Translate a URL into a controller/action/params mapping.
    - Create/fetch from cache an instance of the controller
    - Call the action method on the instance with the params.
MVC currently does this with reflection, so to make it work for DLR languages we need to change that part.

2. DLR languages in aspx/asmx pages for Views and Routing:
    - ASP.NET integration with IronPython (released w/last year's ASP.NET Futures package: http://www.asp.net/ironpython/) needs to be revved to work with DLR as a whole (which we're doing, but with the all the DLR changes going on it needs more work).

3. DLR languages in Models:
    - Make LINQ queries work with DLR languages
    - Define extension methods and LINQ models with DLR languages
Queries will be done by using each language's syntax and providing clever APIs for each. Definitely other work is needed around this, but the right people are definitely working on this.

Again, all these things have been only prototypes/samples simply because the DLR is moving so fast, and it makes sense to really start making things work when it begins to stabilize (which is beginning to happen). Keep in mind, a MVC preview is currently released @ http://www.asp.net/downloads/3.5-extensions/, so you can experiment with integrating w/the DLR yourself ... though I warn you, it won't be easy. =P The fact that it is so hard is definitely an issue at a higher level (parity between all languages is hard), and that's another issue people are working on.

~Jimmy


On 2/24/08 11:16 PM, "Web Reservoir" <lists at ruby-forum.com> wrote:

Hello,

( Please note all this discussion below is about Asp.Net MVC with
IronRuby only.)

I just finished reading the first chapter on Asp.Net MVC in Action by
www.manning.com.

It seems Asp.Net MVC is inspired a lot by Ruby on Rails.... And the
Major interesting thing is Microsoft has improved a lot over this,
offering some great advantages that ROR lacks.

I think.. It would be wise to go with Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby....
rather than going for IronRuby on Rails.... since MS will constantly
make efforts to improve upon MVC framework... Plus the advantages of
calling other languages with the DLR support, Great Community
Support..... and many other plus points can be added here...

Just wondering and would like to know.. what others are thinking in this
terms

Thanks
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
_______________________________________________
Ironruby-core mailing list
Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core




On 2/24/08 11:16 PM, "Web Reservoir" <lists at ruby-forum.com> wrote:

Hello,

( Please note all this discussion below is about Asp.Net MVC with
IronRuby only.)

I just finished reading the first chapter on Asp.Net MVC in Action by
www.manning.com.

It seems Asp.Net MVC is inspired a lot by Ruby on Rails.... And the
Major interesting thing is Microsoft has improved a lot over this,
offering some great advantages that ROR lacks.

I think.. It would be wise to go with Asp.Net MVC with IronRuby....
rather than going for IronRuby on Rails.... since MS will constantly
make efforts to improve upon MVC framework... Plus the advantages of
calling other languages with the DLR support, Great Community
Support..... and many other plus points can be added here...

Just wondering and would like to know.. what others are thinking in this
terms

Thanks
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
_______________________________________________
Ironruby-core mailing list
Ironruby-core at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core

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