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By: Rez
 RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2004-01-11 16:47
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I actually remembered my password after a month :)
You've been a busy boy. So you've got it importing a bitmap drawing now? Cool. How complex can the drawing be, or so far is it only outlines?
(I still need to finish downloading the rest of the Ruby stuff... been under-energized of late)
~REZ~
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-18 03:28
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Cool.
I've been fiddling around with various odds and ends... adding barrels, the Nethack renderer, etc... time to dive back into the stuff we were talking about originally - i.e., floor plan -> map. Tricky stuff!
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-15 17:43
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Programmer's API to DOOM levels... Dunno if anyone's done anything like that before (not that I remember). Should be useful, tho. Twisted minds want more ways to bend the DOOM universe. :)
And either DOOM is not all that dead, or there are a LOT of zombies out there -- Doomworld still gets around a million hits a year!
C-64, eh? You ARE ancient. I only go back to a 2-floppy XT. :)
~REZ~
... Back in MY day, we carved our own computers out of wood!"
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-15 15:14
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Cool. Yeah, that's what I like about making a programmer's API to DOOM levels - there are lots and lots of possibilities. Cool stuff!
> 2400 baud modem
Nice. Yeah, I remember programming my C-64... good times!
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-15 05:32
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Oh! this reminds me of the old maze generators. I'm pretty sure there is one out there with source available -- might be useful too.
I'm also reminded of playing Wizard-Maze (BBS door game) via 2400 baud modem. Lordy, I feel old :)
~REZ~
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 20:15
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We're well past my knowledge limit already :-)
I just had a bit of a brain storm inspired from a fellow's post over at http://www.newdoom.com/ on the editing forums - suppose we used the current path stuff and had prebuilt forms. For example, the top half of a cross shape would look like this:
e400/n400/e200/s400/e400
####
# #
#### ####
Could those be plugged together to form a longer, more interesting path? Seems like it would work. Looking at that now...
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 19:32
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That about exhausts my knowledge of the subject :)
Tho I had the thought that maybe the data recognition engine in a bitmap editor might be a good starting point.
~REZ~
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 19:14
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> the .DWG AutoCAD file format
Very cool, thanks.
> sketch on paper, then scan that to a basic
> graphic format, then dump that to
> the WADbuilder tool.
Yup, or take an already existing image (i.e. office floorplan) and scan that into a map.
> you'd mainly be looking for pixel on/off
Hm, yup, sounds right. Cool stuff!
Thanks,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 18:26
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I *think* the .DWG AutoCAD file format is an open standard, if that's of any use. Assorted references: http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/AutoCAD.FILE.shtml
Some regular WAD editors have a 3D-wireframe view available. One would think that the ability to display same would be right next door to being able to import it??
But for the average person's art skills, importing a plain old 2D floorplan would be a lot easier. Especially if they could sketch on paper, then scan that to a basic graphic format, then dump that to the WADbuilder tool.
I'd think line detection wouldn't be too hard, you'd mainly be looking for pixel on/off, or something like that. I'm not sure how the data is arranged, but if you parse pixel indicators (however done in a given file format) that should be translateable, yes? GIF might be simplest for a starting point, having only 256 colours available thus relatively limited data.
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 13:02
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> import a line drawing (or something similar)
> and dump it to WAD format, runnable as-is
> or handy for touching-up in a "real editor".
That's a very nice summary! And I agree, that does sound good.
I Googled around for "blueprint standard format" and such, and came up dry... seems like all the blueprints I could find were just images - GIFs or JPEGs. Hm.
Could we parse an image and do line detection? Dunno. That would be cool though.
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-13 04:06
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As you say, there are plenty of level editors. But AFAIK there's nothing that can import a line drawing (or something similar) and dump it to WAD format, runnable as-is or handy for touching-up in a "real editor".
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 19:28
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> first you gotta own Visio
Yeah, true.
> create a simple editor
Yeah, I think I was hoping to stay away from writing a full-featured WAD editor - seems like there are plenty of those out there already. But who knows... maybe it's heading that way...
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 17:54
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Trouble with Visio is that first you gotta own Visio...
I did have a notion something like this: just use ordinary bitmap graphics. That way any tolerably compliant line graphic (in some generic format like .BMP), built in any image editor, would work for input.
Maybe colour-code the lines so that all lines of a given colour define a given height for that sector. That would be easy for users to see/use, and the bit definition for colour ought to be parsable by the linedef/sector builder.
Or maybe create a simple editor that's really just a bitmap editor (not a lines-and-sectors editor), that automates the "this colour is that sector" thing for the user. This would work for floors, but I'm not sure how to handle ceiling heights. A little box in major sectors where you input a number? Intervening sectors, like stairways, could be automated to split the difference between major sector heights (sorta like auto-stairbuilding in some WAD editors).
Why yes, I *do* have lots of strange ideas, why do you ask? :)
~REZ~
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 17:07
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> could import AutoCAD documents
> or scanned blueprints
Right on.
> might be building a level based on
> a line drawing
Yup, that'd be good. Any ideas on a "line drawing" format to start with? Should we just parse Visio or something?
> WinVersion to use
I use Ruby on WinXP and it seems to work fine... although I'm doing most of the Ruby-DOOM development on Linux.
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 16:56
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I vaguely recall that one of the ancient DOOM level editors could import AutoCAD documents or scanned blueprints, or at least intended to do so in the future. Dunno where that went, since I'm hopeless with an editor :) However, I think it's a worthwhile approach. Even better for average players, might be building a level based on a line drawing.
Any caveats re WinVersion to use under the Windows edition of the Ruby environment thingee? (a latenight download here .. very slow dialup) My everyday machine is Win98, but I have an XP box for stuff that tends to leak or otherwise misbehave. (My DOOM box is DOS/Win95.)
~REZ~
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By: Tom Copeland
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 16:33
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> sort of level generator?
Exactly. There are some more details here:
http://ruby-doom.rubyforge.org/
> a "monster doubler" util to enhance old maps.
Cool. Yup, mostly I'm looking at generate maps from existing data formats (Cougaar agent communities, floor plans, etc), but there's certainly a possibility to do general WAD editing as well.
At least, there will be once I get the current "hall of mirrors" effect fixed... sigh....
Yours,
Tom
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By: Rez
RE: Welcome to Open Discussion [ reply ]
2003-12-12 16:29
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Found this project via your slashdot sig...
I'm always interested in DOOM stuff. I gather this is aimed at becoming some sort of level generator?
I use SLIGE a lot to create random new maps (it's opensource, if it'd be of any use to you) and have had thoughts re the uses for a "monster doubler" util to enhance old maps.
~REZ~
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